Apologies re the email dated yesterday!! I *did* think of commenting on that thread way back around the 12th October, but I thought I'd trashed it. Beats me how it got sent. I was away at a church camp at the weekend, and something went awry in my mailer. Sorry, Sue
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 23:54:45 +1100, you wrote: > > >On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:17:50 +1000, you wrote: > >>I've been interested in how one would address this construction of the >>Australian's Paul Kelly: >> >>"Pell is detested because he favours a muscular Christianity, not the >>limp-wristed social justice variety". >>(http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10982762%255E12250,00.html) >> >> >> >>How does that measure with what >> >>Rob Bos wrote: >> >>> Young people do not want a namby-pamby easy gospel ... one of the >>> clear voices against the right wing "Christian" sell-out in the US is >>> Sojourners ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). They provide an organised >>> alternative voice to the Christian right. Elenie Poulos (Assembly >>> UnitingJustice) and I were wondering how to get up an Australian >>> e-list like that. (It needs to be ecumenical or non-denominational, I >>> suspect.) >> >> >> >>So is just "justice" namby pamby and limp-wristed or not? How come >>injustice (or "opportunity" according to Blair and Latham) is "muscular"? >> >> >>Rob Bos wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Trevor. Yep that's the challenge. Three reactions: >>> 1. I was privileged to be asked to the do the Bible studies at the >>> VicTas Synod recently. The surprising thing to me was that in the >>> sermon and Bible studies where I was the most challenging, the most >>> radically alternate to current social values, the most uncompromising >>> I got the warmest response. (At the risk of blatant self-promotion >>> they may be found at http://vic.uca.org.au, esp the one on Luke.) It >>> seems to me that many people are ready for and excited by the tough >>> challenge to discipleship. >>> 2. Secondly, the most hope-filled gatherings I went to this year was >>> the radical discipleship get-together of young people during the June >>> long weekend (see Insights October, page 14). Young people do not want >>> a namby-pamby easy gospel. >>> 3. Thirdly, one of the clear voices against the right wing "Christian" >>> sell-out in the US is Sojourners ([EMAIL PROTECTED]). They provide >>> an organised alternative voice to the Christian right. Elenie Poulos >>> (Assembly UnitingJustice) and I were wondering how to get up an >>> Australian e-list like that. (It needs to be ecumenical or >>> non-denominational, I suspect.) >>> (Thanks, Ann, you are right. The question then is how do we >>> communicate both the good news of total grace and the good news of >>> total demand? Or in the old money, how do we hold together Jesus as >>> Saviour [holistically] and Jesus as Lord [again holistically]? Maybe >>> giving people what they want is not grace at all.) >>> Rob Bos >>> >>> >>> Trevor Mattiske wrote: >>> >>>> Rob wrote: >>>> The wonder of the gospel is that this is actually good news as it >>>> sets us free from ourselves for communion with God, other people and >>>> creation. God transforms us, not because we are entitled, but when we >>>> are not entitled. >>>> >>>> Ann wrote: >>>> The problem for those of us who recognise that prosperity theology is >>>> not the Gospel is that we often preach a message not very different, >>>> by encouraging a sense of self-worth, but not balancing it with >>>> concepts of discipleship, self-giving love, taking up our cross, etc. >>>> >>>> Trevor responds: >>>> Jumping ahead a couple of steps in the thinking process, these >>>> responses suggest that (IMO) the real problem confronting the Body of >>>> Christ is not the pews full of greying heads, nor the arguments about >>>> gay clergy, ministry of women etc etc. >>>> >>>> ISTM that the real problem for the Church is how to present a >>>> believable message which is the complete reverse of the culture of >>>> the day. How does the Church present messages like "take up your >>>> cross and follow me" or "When Christ calls a man, he bids him come >>>> and die" to a society which is bombarded from all directions by >>>> messages of self-fulfillment, a society which is being filled with >>>> expectations of entitlement? How does an apparently weakening Church >>>> swim against such a tide, a tide powered by the major political and >>>> commercial forces in society, a tide which is constantly reinforced >>>> by a compliant (and self-interested) media? >>>> >>>> For me, a depressing thing about most recent election campaigns has >>>> been the sameness of the messages from all sides, namely "Have we got >>>> a deal for you", with the emphasis on the "you". Somewhere in all >>>> that election rhetoric, was there a vision of a better Australia, a >>>> fairer Australia, a more compassionate Australia, an Australian >>>> community? Did I miss something in the 15 second sound bites? >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ - You are >>>> subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To >>>> unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message >>>> body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: >>>> http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> > >Sue Bolton >Sydney, Australia >------------------------------------------------------ >- You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] >- To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe >insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) >See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm >------------------------------------------------------ Sue Bolton Sydney, Australia ------------------------------------------------------ - You are subscribed to the mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and put in the message body 'unsubscribe insights-l' (ell, not one (1)) See: http://nsw.uca.org.au/insights-l-information.htm ------------------------------------------------------
