and read the notes on safe_mode and open_basedir. PHP as is, is a real
pain in the ass to lock down completely and it always has been. In fact,
I'd venture to say that its impossible.  And believe me when I say that

No more and no less than any other scripting language, I'd say. And the reason for that - it should be done on the OS level, not on the language level. OS possesses the capability and created with exactly this purpose.

I've tried and I'm no slouch.  The only way I can really lock it down is
to use modules like mod_suphp that run the scripts simular to how suexec

I'd attempt some solution involving FastCGI. I think "pretty urls" should still work with that, though this needs some checking.

 The PHP developers trying to shun the problems off to being an Apache
problem or OS problem is irresponsible. If PHP is a module running in
Apache.  What can Apache do?  Maybe I'm missing something here.

Apache can't do much. OS should do it. Now, how to make OS do it there you can have a number of solutions, starting with different user IDs and up to using things like AppArmor and SELinux.

But removing safe_mode will only make things more unsecure not less.  I

Removing safe_mode is recognition of un-feasibility of solving this problem in PHP context. PHP uses dozens of external libraries, which are very hard to control on the level of PHP. Because of that, PHP is not on the level which is necessary to provide user-based security - it's too high-level.

developers can come up with a 100% secure way to run PHP, they shouldn't
be removing functionality like this.  Otherwise I'm going to have to

Having security solution that works in 90% of the code is no better than not having any. Actually, it's worse since some people may mistakenly rely on that 90% as if it were 100% and thus neglect to look at the real security solutions, leaving the system as vulnerable as if they had no security at all.

decreasing it?  I've been waiting since Apache 2.0 (7 years now) for PHP
to take advantage of things Apache 2.0 offers in terms of being able to
let modules run as the user, but I've seen nothing in this regard.

Unfortunately, Apache never really supported running multipe-user servers on single Apache instance.
--
Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.zend.com/
(408)253-8829   MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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