Le 12/09/2013 07:40, Daniel Brown a écrit :
On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Seva Lapsha <seva.lap...@gmail.com> wrote:
PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:
1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
3. Implement it.
4. Maintain it.
Start with 1.
This is one of only a very, very small few points that, to me,
have any merit. Those who are calling for change have not yet met
point #1 in the above list (and, though it may be confusing to some,
we try to abide by the rules and refer to things as "above" --- a note
to those who have not yet even read the etiquette of the list, yet
still feel entitled to a voice).
One of the reasons PHP has been so successful is that some of us
agreed with the original ideals, the path along which it traveled, and
the camaraderie we found in those who shared our opinions. And to
those of you who may not, let me truncate this with a single order:
Fork.
To the rest of you who are still reading, I'll apologize in
advance for my wordiness.
To those of you who are raising your voices now: why did it take
you so long? Do we - by which I mean folks who actively volunteer
their time to the project - seem unapproachable? Outside of these
QWERTY-coups, the list is generally quiet --- particularly when
changes are proposed. When such discussions come up, there are some
who voice approval or opposition..... and they do, at the very least,
actively participate in the discussion - and democracy - of the
ongoing project as a whole.
Today, I see folks who may have awesome intentions, but - unless I
missed something - are not active contributors.
To which, again, I refer to Seva's very valid Point #1.
[We'll take a quick commercial break to let you know that this
message is neither sponsored nor endorsed by Seva, who - to my
knowlege - I have never even met before. I know return you to the
ongoing rant-thread, already in progress.]
The beauty of the development of PHP - and most other projects
share this exact same quality - is that it's not a singularity. PHP
is an ecosystem. The project has so many roles that, quite honestly,
we can't fill them all. And because it's all based on passionate
folks willing to volunteer their time, it makes it just slightly
difficult to recruit. I don't think help-wanted ads would have very
successful results when considering that we'd be asking folks to
volunteer - as so many have over the years - to fill spots such as:
* Implementation of new features (requires knowledge of C)
* Improvement of the documentation (requires knowledge of English)
* Translation of the documentation (requires knowledge of English
and another language)
* Alpha- and beta-testing new releases and providing feedback (may
require multiple environments)
* Systems administration (requires being required)
* QA (requires patience)
* Bug-reporting (requires sixty seconds or less, or your next bug is free)
Salary: commensurate with experience, divided by zero.
It's not just us, it's all open source projects. Sure, sometimes
having financial backing is great. Unfortunately, that turns folks
away, too --- especially when it eradicates the ecosystem of the
original project. A very basic example to which many of you may
relate: Mandrake. Err.... Mandriva. Well, no matter what its name,
since it's no longer free. I should probably refer to it as
Mandriva(R) at this point, just to be safe.
The short-winded summary (and yes, I saved it for the end, to make
everyone suffer) is this: if you want to make a change in PHP - or
anything in life - then get involved, get active, and get things
accomplished. Don't just pull some "occupy" movement and think things
will change because of a voice in numbers. Get inspired, get
involved, and get the fuck to work. Otherwise, move along, and be
archived like the rest of the one-offs.
So your opinion is: Core contributors develop PHP for themselves. Those
who don't agree should either: become contributors (to be part of the
"themselves"), or fork.
IMO, that's a weird way to see how a major language should be developed.
There are two ways of seing this:
1) Core contributors develop PHP for themselves
2) Core contributors develop PHP for the users
Maybe that's the root of the problem. We can poll the community, listen
to framework developers and open the mailing list all we want, if the
majority of core developers think 1) things will not change.
Maybe that's something that a choice that needs to be taken: do
internals choose 1) or 2). That would be the start of a "vision".
If 1) then just keep everything as it is, and only contributors can
propose changes. We (the community) are second-class users, and either
we all chip in to pay C devs to be part of internals and to influence
how PHP will evolve, either we wait for what internals decides to do
with PHP.
If 2) then there needs to be some change. First, a way to hear the voice
of the community. Either with a more open system that lets anyone vote
on posts (the "silent voice", see the "Forum software" thread), or by
conducting polls on what does the community thinks:
- is PHP moving too fast or too slow in terms of features
- if a RFC is technically implemented and valid, do you wish to see this
feature (this is not letting the community vote to RFC, but it's a poll
to give concrete results to "everybody/nobody wants it")
(or by any other way, these are examples)
But I don't see how PHP can continue with contributors thinking 1) and
others thinking 2).
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