> > xPDF library which renders PDF on any imaginable platform (and
> > contains much more complicated code than iText)
>
> [Erik Pfingsten] Have you actually looked at the source code for both
> projects. They both looked pretty complicated to me. Your statement
> that xPDF "contains much more complicated code than iText" is spurious
> at best. Not to mention, xPDF is (gross over-generalization) for
> viewing PDFs, iText is for creating PDFs. Not saying one is simpler
> than the other, but its like comparing LCD Screens and Digital
> Cameras (I would have said apples and oranges, but that seems soooo
> 20th century :-)
Yes I have worked with both sources. I have written several fixed for iText
and also fixed some stuff in xPDF (which is C++). Rendering PDF is really
much more complex than writing PDF. Just try to find a PDF renderer
somewhere that actually works... AFAIK there are only two libs available
that really work: xPDF and Adobes library. All the others are either
horribly slow, or buggy. Try to render encrypted Unicode PDFs with Korean
text, large bitmaps or similar content to see incredible differences. I was
trying to say that writing a PDF generator is not rocket science (because
there is a well written PDF doc and it's simply a text generator) and
writing a renderer is much harder. Compare that with XML. Writing XML is not
hard, parsing is (without using any lib). That's not a negative point about
iText, it should just illustrate that the price point of iText is IMHO too
high for small companies.
> > is a one-pay 1500$ lib with no further restrictions (OEM). If the
> same
> > would apply for iText I would be happy to pay but with the current
> > licensing scheme: no thanks...
>
> [Erik Pfingsten] Looking at xPDF's "purchase" page
> (http://www.glyphandcog.com/buy.html), you need developer licenses AND
> Run-Time licenses.
As I said we bought an OEM license for ~1500$ for unlimited distribution and
source code. No reason to count client installations.
> [Erik Pfingsten] You say xPDF has $1500 license for OEM's? Have you
> actually contacted iText Commercial to see what they would charge?
> Maybe they have a large volume OEM type license available too (oh
> wait
whats this? http://itextpdf.com/terms-of-use/index.php).
We would need licence of type 2, 3a, 3b. According to
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg50873.h
tml
you have to pay 3000$ for 250 client installations (which would only cover
our need for type 3b). In the end for our need this seems to be a five
figure number and is therefore out of any relation to the given value. Not
to mention that you would have to build extra software just to count client
installations and send those numbers back. From my point of view any license
that forces you to count client installations or users or similar things is
simply not working for boxed software.
> > 1. Buy the book without any further explanation or just a short hint
> > where to find something
> [Erik Pfingsten] or a pointer to the source code examples on the
> website that you can look at, not to mention the api documentation,
> sample chapters. Oh, and more often than not, an actual solution in the
> email response
For example
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg52731.h
tml
Usually you don't get a link to an example or the documentation just a hint
where in the book the topic could be found.
> > 2. You are using the old version, we won't help you because of that
> [Erik Pfingsten] Last time I checked, Microsoft doesnt offer support
> for Windows 3.1 eithe
So iText 2.x (which was the current version a year ago) is like Win3.1
(which died 15 years ago) for you?
> > 3. Sometimes no response at all
> [Erik Pfingsten] really, Ive never seen a question that wasnt
> answered at some point
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg53101.h
tml
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg53017.h
tml
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg52958.h
tml
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg52682.h
tml
> > This behavior does not match the price point of your lib and really
> does not encourages one to buy.
> [Erik Pfingsten] My understanding has always been that this list is for
> support of the free iText (for lack of a better way to put it). I
> believe that Commercial users (companies that buy licenses) get
> priority support through a support contact.
But it makes a bad impression if the free mailing list is treated like a
normal OSS mailing list but is meant to promote the expensive commercial
product.
> But to put it bluntly
to say that the responders on this list are not
> helpful (which is the essence of your argument), is a load of crap
I did not say that at all. I just said that a company that wants to sell
their product needs a professional support list as well (even if it's for
the free part). Selling a book as an answer for a list question is not
professional (although I understand the intention). I follow a lot of
mailing lists being they commercial, free and mixed ones like iText and this
list really feels like an OSS list and not a commercial one because
sometimes it gets rude and most answers refer to the book. There is really
not a community feeling here, it's more like Bruno defending his baby and
attacking every one that tries to criticize things (like the license change
or the price tag).
Besides that I really like iText and admire Brunos and Paulos work :-)
Best,
Campus
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