Serge Knystautas wrote:
> I appreciate your feedback, but I think you're confusing some of the
> information presented. Solaris was on *Sparc*, although everything else
> was. It wasn't comparing exclusively x86, and I'd certainly agree that
> a Solaris Sparc (running a non-final release of JDK 1.2) performed
> better with high connection loads, but I only have one Ultrasparc
> sitting around. The article also showed that while IBM OS/2 JDK 1.1.7
> had the highest *transaction rate* at 300 connections (the first chart),
> it could not support more than 600 connections (the second chart).
>
The Solaris is the Intel Solaris x86 as per the article:
Sun JDK 1.2 Solaris - early access Java VM
22 December 1998 - Sun JDK 1.2 Solaris Production Release (Early Access)
---> Sun Solaris 7 Desktop Intel Platform Edition
java full version "Solaris_JDK_1.2_01_dev06_fcsV"
Installed from Solaris_JDK_1.2_01_dev06.i386.tar.Z (26,411,384 bytes).
Uses native threads and sunwjit just-in-time compiler.
The heap and stack options must be preceded by the capital letter "X".
>
> I have 2 linux-alpha machines, one of them got converted to nt/alpha
> because of effectively no java support (the link to the linux-alpha port
> was dead). It's also still only 1.1.5, and I don't know even with Sun's
> support whether we'll ever see a solid 1.2 port of the JVM for
> linux-alpha. To me, x86 are the highest value machines around their.
> They're too power hungry for PDA like devices, but if we can get SMP and
> clustering working easily in a linux environment, there's the best way
> to build a great system!
>
What's this fascination with Linux? I was under the impression you wanted a
solution
that offered, speed, salability and reliability. Linux offers the later two but
often
it is to immature in some areas to be a good fit where a more well developed UNIX is
involved. If you are painting my as a Linux Advocate, well you'd be right, but not
with
regard to the discussion here.
>
> As for developing "who cares what machine, you don't have those stress
> levels," does that mean you're suggesting I develop on linux and deploy
> on NT? ;) I think you'd agree it's better to develop on wintel (or
> something else if you want) and deploy on solaris or linux.
>
No I would disagree. And so would the lions share of JAVA developers here at iXL
I
imagine, at least they are all requesting Linux or Solaris box's to replace there NT
clients. I have far less porting issues if I stay away from wintel. Especially if I
plan to support any form of scalability. IDEs are nice but I can't imagine anyone
needing an IDE to develop a servlet. Besides there is no shortage of good IDEs under
UNIX. Additionally it is far easier to support multiple developers on a project with
UNIX than NT any day. As a System Administrator this is a big plus.
> TowerJ looks very promising, but only once it reaches 3.0. To me, one
> of the most powerful features of Java is dynamic class reloading (like
> you do all the time with servlets and JSPs), and TowerJ 3.0 coming out
> late spring/summer should have that. Then I'll even pay for it! (not
> that the Volano tests showed any kind of stability with a high number of
> connections).
>
Not that familiar with it. Im mostly an administrator. I see things from a
practicality stand point. I never look for the quick fix now solutions, in the long
run
they fail to deliver and just cause more headaches. That's been my experience with NT
and to some extent Linux for the last few years or so anyway.
>
> I'm also eagerly awaiting the 2.2 kernel to be widespread (I'm just
> using RH rpms since I don't have the time to rebuild the kernel or
> research what point release is best for me right now). That will
> hopefully solve the file-handle issues.
>
That would be good. Since most of our Linux development servers are single
processor, I had been at odds with my self if a 2.2 upgrade would be worth the effort.
Now I have a good reason to do it. :-)
>
> Linux has made a big splash because of its technical merits. Let's
> leave the emotion-laden bashing to the Mac brown shirts with their
> "color computers."
Again Linux is not the issue. Its all about the right tool for the job. You
see
NT I see Solaris, OS/2 and Linux. It really comes down to what you know, what your
comfortable with and where your going.
So shoot me I like standards. :-)
hmm we drift further and further off topic. :-(
So how are you going to deal with the Buffer problem under NT? I mean is your
site
going to be getting 200+ hits a second, thus forcing you to use NT as you put it? Are
you so restricted in your choice you can't use anything but NT?
If you can't stick to JServ and Apache because you need NT. Id like to recommend
Jexec. I have had some real horrors dealing with Live Software(JRUN) lately and their
product is not really worth the asking price. In fact I think iXL has decided to
pursue
other vendors after finding out about a problem that caused JRUN to reuse session IDs.
I don't work with or for Jexec( Atlanta Software I think ). But a few people here
at
iXL seem to really like it allot.
Ron Burton
> Serge Knystautas
> Loki Technologies
> http://www.lokitech.com
>
> Ron Burton wrote:
> >
> > Id say the article showed Solaris as the best platform for development and
> > distribution. With Linux and TowerJ or IBM OS/2 a good second. Nothing in that
> > article showed NT as having any advantage at all.
> >
> > Be that as it may it does clearly show Solaris is the premier high volume
>server
> > with IBM and NT way behind.
> >
> > As a developer who cares what platform you develop on, Like you really run
>2100
> > connection in the development environment. Also don't be too quick to judge, all
> > the servers tested were Intel based. That in its self makes the entire report
> > less than useful when considering the concepts of salability. Again it is far
> > easier to migrate from Intel with Solaris and Linux to a more powerful UNIX based
> > platform than NT.
> >
> > Ron Burton
> >
> > Serge Knystautas wrote:
> >
> > > I hate Microsoft as much as the next self-respecting developer, but as a
> > > Java developer, Sun has unfortunately made NT the best Java platform
> > > (since this is the JServ mailing list). Check out the latest Volano JVM
> > > stress tests (I think this has already been mentioned on this list, but
> > > you should review the results).
> > > http://www.javaworld.com/jw-03-1999/jw-03-volanomark.html?022399txt
> > >
> > > Highlights include several JVMs on NT able to support up to 2100
> > > simultaneous connections without choking, but Linux caps at 250
> > > (roughly) because of file system sharing. Nevermind that the JITs on
> > > Linux are less developed and stress-tests, so the performance is better
> > > on NT. Better performance and scalability on NT. Never thought I'd say
> > > that. That's the whole reason we're migrating so many other services
> > > here to Linux (DNS, mail, dhcp, etc...).
> > >
> > > Sorry, but like I said, I'm stuck with Windows because of Java...
> > >
> > > Serge Knystautas
> > > Loki Technologies
> > > http://www.lokitech.com
> > >
> > > Ron Burton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Marc A. Saegesser" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There may be problems making CGI and servlet output unbuffered, that's why
> > > > > I posted. If unbuffered CGI and servlets won't work then the only choice I
> > > > > have left is to switch to a different web server for the Win32 platform.
> > > >
> > > > There is always the other alternative. :-)
> > > >
> > > > Sorry couldn't resist the temptation on this.
> > > >
> > > > Why would anyone use NT as the server anyway? Its expensive, slow and
> > > > comparably unreliable.
> > > >
> > > > If there is some service that requires NT, use NT for that. However, the
> > > > web server could run on any platform and still communicate with the service.
> > > >
> > > > I know this is not really helping allot, but often we tend to start down a
> > > > single path convinced its the only one. Only to realize far to late we are on
> > > > the wrong path.
> > > >
> > > > Ron Burton
> > > >
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