2009/9/30 Charles Oliver Nutter <head...@headius.com> > > On Sep 24, 1:17 am, Robert Lally <rob.la...@gmail.com> wrote: > > After all the discussions about Coin, Java 7, closures, participation, > and > > the JCP I'm left with the following understanding. > > 1. There's no shortage of ideas. > > 2. There is a shortage of analysis and implementations. > > 3. There are no companies that have a vested interest, or a potential > ROI, > > in implementing the massive pile of ideas that already exist. Companies > do > > what they can, but resources everywhere are limited and it is > irresponsible > > to spend shareholder money on projects with no clear return. > > 4. The open source ideal of a developer scratching his/her own itch > doesn't > > apply because "I think a closure here would save me four lines of code so > > I'm going to spend 20 hours a week for the next four years making it > happen" > > doesn't make sense. If an individual did make this commitment it would be > > out of altruism, not motivated self interest. > > 5. There are few individual developers who have the time, motivation and > > skills necessary to investigate, analyse and implement the massive pile > of > > ideas that already exist. The subset of them who also have nothing better > to > > do with their time is a vanishingly small number. > > Bullshit. I worked on JRuby for two years in my spare time > (occasionally taking vacation to work on JRuby), and granted I'm > probably among the oddities in the community, but if you want to do > something you just do it. Now I'm slowly cultivating a couple > additional Ruby-like languages in my spare time while JRuby is my full- > time gig. There's nothing stopping Java or Java++ or anything else > from happening other than people just getting off their collective > asses and doing it. It's not that hard, I promise you...I still don't > know what the hell I'm doing. > > And before you ask... yes, I'm married...yes, I have a kid. But I've > managed to make it all work by putting in hours when other people are > watching the latest TV episode of some crime show or playing the > latest XBox shooter. If you love something, you find a way to make it > happen. So...find a way. >
Charles, I was irked by this, but I thought I'd let it sit for a few days before I responded to avoid leisurely repenting. Other people disagreed with me, but they did so politely, which I appreciate. I made comments specifically about Java implementations, and mentioned a lack of motivation. Your self contradictory response seems to say: 1. You're wrong : "Bullshit" 2. I did something that wasn't contributing to the development of the Java language via the JCP : "worked on JRuby for two years in my spare time" 3. The only thing stopping people is motivation : "There's nothing stopping Java or Java++ or anything else from happening other than people just getting off their collective asses and doing it." To which I'd have to respond: 1. If there is this plethora of motivated, skilled people who can and will devote the time and effort, can you please point us to where they're hiding. Nobody else seems to be aware of their existence. Or are you talking about people who are deficient in one of the requisite qualities, which would seem to support my point. 2. So what? You did something that isn't what we're talking about. So it took a lot of time and effort, (for which, as a JRuby user I'm deeply and personally grateful) that doesn't make it germane. The fact that you decided to do something other than improve the Java language via the JCP despite being smart, having the time and being motivated to do something, shows that you still weren't motivated to do so. Which would seem to support my point. 3. My point, exactly. To avoid any suggestion that I've taken your points out of context I've left your response whole and unexpurgated in this mail. I personally am in the camp of "ill motivated to make these changes personally" and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I could find the time, I could develop the necessary skills. But I don't want to. I have other things I'd rather do. Other projects are more attractive or interesting to me. As alternatives, I could spend the time with my family, exercising, on one of my other hobbies or putting in extra hours at the startup I work for. All of these are valid choices. Some things evolve over time, some things are replaced: people added engines to carriages, but lightbulbs supplanted candles. Java might evolve. It might be replaced. When I have other languages to go to - JRuby/Ruby, Scala, Groovy, Haskell, Erlang, F#, C#... whatever, I don't have a reason to care that much. I have more fantastic options of language and platform now (thanks in part to you), than I've ever had. If the Java language can't keep up, I'll shed a nostalgic tear and get over it. I'm a software developer, not a Java developer. I can, and have, moved on; just as the Cobol generation did. I suspect others will do the same. R. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to javaposse@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to javaposse+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
