Count me in too. I will charge all of my clients for the cost of the docs
and gladly see they are paid for. My customers will love it.
This list needs to grow up a bit IMO. This is not all for fun and games.
Mark, Rickard, et al. deserve far more credit than what's being dished out.
Why not help them to realize their dreams and goals as well, they've
certainly earned it.
Andy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kimpton,C (Chris)
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:54 AM
> To: 'JBoss-Dev'
> Subject: [jBoss-Dev] Re: [jboss-docs] Future of group, Documentation
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Just to support the "cash for docs" project - I have recently done 2
> projects using jboss and will be buying some of these manuals - since I am
> one of those developers that doesn't like writing documentation -
> I am happy
> to pay someone else to do it.
>
> So - when can I buy it?
>
> I presume we are talking a few months away?
>
> I want 10-15 copies each of the user and development manuals.
>
> Regards,
> Chris
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: marc fleury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, 16 March 2001 14:27
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; jBoss Developer
> > Subject: [jBoss-Dev] RE: I don't think it is sustainable ->Re:
> > [jboss-docs] Future of group, Documentation
> >
> >
> > we move or we die
> > we move or we die
> > we move or we die
> >
> > marc
> >
> >
> > |-----Original Message-----
> > |From: Lionel Siau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > |Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:59 AM
> > |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; jBoss Developer
> > |Subject: I don't think it is sustainable ->Re: [jboss-docs] Future of
> > |group, Documentation
> > |
> > |
> > |Hi Marc,
> > |
> > |I think the aim is great and in the right direction however,
> > u don't have a
> > |defensible business model (for the lack of a better term).
> > |
> > |If it is free in source, how are u going to prevent pple
> > from printing for
> > |themseleves on the site(jboss is for programmers who
> > properably now how to
> > |setup their printers...) and very soon, have pple putting up
> > downloadable
> > |versions they hacked from the html pages or just pirated off
> > their license
> > |cpy. Who are the pple who would buy a cpy of the manual?
> > What are their
> > |estimated numbers? Not many I'm afraid.
> > |
> > |Just my 2c.
> > |
> > |Lionel
> > |
> > |
> > |Lionel
> > |----- Original Message -----
> > |From: "marc fleury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > |To: "Jboss-Docs@Egroups. Com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "jBoss
> > |Developer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > |Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 10:49 AM
> > |Subject: [jboss-docs] Future of group, Documentation
> > |
> > |
> > |> Hello folks,
> > |>
> > |> after much speculation, false alarms and rumors, I would like to
> > |officially
> > |> announce what we are planning to do with the new documentation.
> > |>
> > |> The board has been at it for the past 2 month almost,
> > since it became
> > |clear
> > |> that JBoss needs to grow even more that documentation is
> > lacking and that
> > |> management of our growth requires some capital.
> > |>
> > |> For example it becomes clear that while our growth is
> > still pretty much
> > |> exponential, we need documentation, a good measure of QA,
> > packaging and
> > |> release management. These are better done with a small
> > full time group.
> > |>
> > |> We want to achieve "professional" quality in all our aspects. That
> > |includes
> > |> things that normally open source groups don't do well, among others
> > |> "documentation" and it is a small company in the making.
> > |>
> > |> One thing we would like to achieve very much is self
> > sustainance, one
> > |where
> > |> the group of Open Source Programmers can generate enough
> > of a revenue to
> > |> keep the various aspects of the project running at a "professional"
> > |quality
> > |> grade.
> > |>
> > |> We (the board) have 2 requirement
> > |> 1- Keep JBoss org "free". In fact JBoss is becoming an Open Source
> > |> Jaugernaut all by itself, the reason? the distribution! it
> > is quality it
> > |is
> > |> free! We are totally dedicated to our Open Source roots.
> > |> 2- Generate revenue from within the group for and by developers,
> > |the group
> > |> of Open Source Programmers that we have could be a self sustaining
> > |> structure. Structure the Open Source Programmers for profit.
> > |>
> > |> 2 is in constrast with RedHat that employs developers and
> > Apache where
> > |most
> > |> jakarta guys are at SUN/IBM or do something else (brian
> > |behlendorf). Java
> > |> is a rich enough field that we can at least think about the
> > |possibility of
> > |> sustaining part of the developers through self generated revenues.
> > |>
> > |> So THE GOAL OF ALL THIS is to generate enough money that all the
> > |developers
> > |> have an incentive to work and some of us can grow the free base.
> > |>
> > |> How does it work while we keep it free?
> > |>
> > |> here goes:
> > |>
> > |> We are talking about the specific case of the
> > documentation. Right now
> > |the
> > |> doco is really out of whack, there are parts that are out
> > of date, plain
> > |> wrong and generally speaking they aren't maintained.
> > |>
> > |> We are going to write the documentation in the famed user
> > manual, pretty
> > |> much from scratch reusing what we can and when we have
> > permission. The
> > |> result WILL BE FREE ONLINE. WILL BE FREE IN CVS.
> > |>
> > |> So all the documentation we produce will be available in
> > cvs and on the
> > |> website for you to use. What we will do is also offer
> > "downloadable"
> > |> versions for a moderate fee (we are thinking $10-$30).
> > |>
> > |> These version can be installed locally and even printed
> > since one of the
> > |> downloadable versions will be PDF. You can get it from
> > CVS if you are
> > |fancy
> > |> enough, but we offer the for pay download for everyones
> > convenience. It
> > |is
> > |> targeted at the "casual user" that doesn't want to go to CVS.
> > |>
> > |> The revenues go to the "GROUP OF OPEN SOURCE PROGRAMMERS"
> > that wrote the
> > |> documentation in the first place. The "GROUP OF JBOSS
> > |PROGRAMMERS" shares
> > |> the revenues depending on their contributions.
> > |>
> > |> This is "JBOSS GROUP" all of you that write doco are
> > |automatically part of
> > |> this "virtual company". There is a 30% cut that goes towards the
> > |maintaince
> > |> of JBoss org. The rest 70% is shared among authors.
> > |>
> > |> Is this clear? This is for documentation only. Do NOT
> > EXTRAPOLATE to
> > |> JBossServer itself. In fact the goal of all this is to
> > keep JBoss.org
> > |> development and management absolutely FREE. THIS IS DOCO ONLY.
> > |>
> > |> Write doco get paid.
> > |>
> > |> ANNOUNCEMENT:
> > |>
> > |> We are going to restart a professional grade documentation
> > effort under
> > |the
> > |> "write doco get paid" program. It is co-written, available
> > for free for
> > |> browsing and in cvs and available for download from JBoss
> > for a fee.
> > |Profits
> > |> are shared among writers, a 30% goes to running JBoss.
> > |>
> > |> Simple.
> > |>
> > |> So I will try to spend a couple of days really going in
> > details of the
> > |> status of the spec and getting you guys on board.
> > Everything counts ,
> > |> writing, infrastructure, XML Docbook maintainance, review,
> > patches etc.
> > |>
> > |> FAQ:
> > |>
> > |> Q: Does the same apply to JBossServer? Do we offer it for $$
> > |> A: No, in fact the goal is to keep JBossServer absolutely
> > free while at
> > |the
> > |> same time achieving "professional quality" grade in our products.
> > |> Professional Grade LGPL by financing a professional core.
> > |>
> > |> Q: What is JBoss Group?
> > |> A: JBoss Group is a virtual company representing the Open Source
> > |Programmers
> > |> of JBoss. As revenues are shared among developers and
> > |contributors, JBoss
> > |> Group distributes these. JBoss Group is also an umbrella
> > for marketing
> > |more
> > |> traditional services such as Training. JBoss Group is a for profit
> > |company.
> > |>
> > |> Q: Who takes care of billing?
> > |> A: We are investigating various venues, we will probably
> > outsource the
> > |> credit card handling to a 3rd party shortly. JBoss Group
> > is the virtual
> > |> company that aggregates the revenues and distributes to
> > the members.
> > |>
> > |> Q: I am a developer/writer, how does this move affect me?
> > |> A: If you are a developer you are free to not pay
> > attention to this AT
> > |ALL.
> > |> It won't affect you in any way. You can however decide to
> > write some
> > |> documentation and bring it under the "write doco, get
> > paid" program. The
> > |> documentation you write, if integrated in the main manual, is then
> > |marketed
> > |> and distributed through JBoss' websites. It is also
> > available for free
> > |> online for browsing and in CVS just like it is today.
> > Finally you profit
> > |> share with us. In short, your life isn't changed at all,
> > only now you
> > |might
> > |> get paid.
> > |>
> > |> Q: I am a user of JBoss technology, how does this move affect me?
> > |> A: If you are a user, you will notice that this moves
> > makes your life
> > |> better. First and foremost the documentation will be up-to-date
> > |since now
> > |> developers have a monetary incentive to produce quality uptodate
> > |> documentation, it is also edited and maintained in a
> > professional grade
> > |> manual. Better yet, it is available for free online and
> > in cvs. By
> > |popular
> > |> demand we offer a pre-packaged version for you to
> > download. This will be
> > |> HTML and PDF.
> > |>
> > |> Q: I am a writer how do I participate?
> > |> A: if you are a writer you have already been contacted for
> > permission to
> > |> include the documentation in the new manual. If you are a new
> > |contributor
> > |> please refer to jboss-docs for submittal of documentation bits.
> > |>
> > |> Q: How is the "profit sharing" decided?
> > |> A: It is proportional to your contribution. This is a bit
> > "subjective"
> > |and
> > |> not linked to "words" or "pages", but takes into account things as
> > |disparate
> > |> as "pure contributions" to "XML Docbook maintainance". The
> > |board of JBoss
> > |> will approve the percentage distribution every other month.
> > |>
> > |> Q: What is the price point you envision?
> > |> A: $10-$30 for the end user documentation, $20-$40 for the
> > developer
> > |> documentation.
> > |>
> > |>
> > |> PLgC
> > |>
> > |> Marc
> > |> _________________
> > |> Marc Fleury, Ph.D
> > |> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > |> _________________
> > |>
> > |>
> > |>
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