> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Adam
> Heath
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 12:33 AM
> To: Jboss-Development@Lists. Sourceforge. Net
> Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] time is up, where is adam heath?
>
>
> On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Bill Burke wrote:
>
> > Ean,
> >
> > Adam Heath is getting flamed because he has been a jerk. You
> don't go on
> > these lists demanding features and bashing people because
> certain features
> > don't work to a community of developers who mostly all work for free! I
> > secretly applauded Marc for flaming Adam because I'm sick and tired of
> > winy-ass developers coming on this list demanding things when
> they have not
> > contributed anything in return. I work hard on JBoss in my
> free time, and
> > it is a slap in the face when somebody comes around with this kind of
> > attitude. If you want to have that kind of attitude on this
> email list, you
> > have to EARN that right and privilege.
>
> I was being a jerk? I may have been inappropriate *at times*,
> but not every
> single time. I never *demanded* features. I never said it didn't work.
>
> I was asking for a different source distribution. Which, if you
> recall, I did
> eventually submit a patch for, to do exactly what I need, after
Didn't see your patch, sorry....Well, I actualy couldn't find it after
looking a little bit.
> A short, simple note, along the lines of:
>
> We have not done these features, because we have not had
> time. There have
> been more pressing needs(new, super cool features, fixing
> real bugs), that
> we have given our time to. If there is something that you
> would like to
> see, code it up/write up a document describing what you need,
> and we can
> develop it together.
>
> would have been much more polite. Yet, marc decided to attack me back,
> instead of being nice, and redirecting my obvious explosive
> energies to more
> productive means.
>
> I am use to community development. I am not used to tons of single,
> individual people from a community, all going off, coding one
> feature here,
> one feature there, and then coming back at the end, to put it all
> together. I
> am used to discussion all the way, discussion, talk, discussion,
> flame, talk,
> decide, flame, discussion, decide, vote(throw code in between each word).
>
Sorry if the JBoss community is not what you're used to. It works for us.
I am now integrating JBoss into a 2nd production system at a 2nd company,
with much success, and will be moving onto a 3rd in January.. The JBoss
community is doing something right. I know from experience.
> As to earning the right and privledge, do I have to earn the right and
> privledge for any particular item, each time I change my venue?
Yes. Who the hell is Adam Heath anyways? (Then you could ask, who the hell
is Bill Burke? :)
> That's not
> how it works in the business world. There is such a thing called
Don't know what business world you live in, but respect is usually earned
not given. Sure credentials get you noticed, but after that you have to
earn the respect of your peers. And yes, we are your peers. Only results
and money talk in the business world. Unless you're a commie. I thought we
purged you commies back in the '50s?
> credentials,
> and a resume, that describes what a person is capable of. This
> can be enough
> in and of itself to warrant giving one respect.
>
It doesn't work like that here. Somebody correct me, but, IMHO, we have a
meritocracy here. You get what you give.
> I have lots of experience in packaging software for Debian. I
> know the issues
> with doing this. And some of those issues I brought up a bit
> ago(no need to
> rehash them here). I would have thought that it would have been
> appropriate
> to use my packaging expertise, to make jboss a better package. But then
> that's me.
>
Well, honestly, from the emails I've read, didn't sound like you were
contributing any expertise, but rather voicing complaints.
> > Marc is the source of JBoss. He provides its energy and
> vision. He gives
> > us focus. I can tell you from personal experience that Marc
> takes care of
> > those who are contributors of jboss and takes care of them
> well. He breeds
> > loyalty and always gives back what you put into the JBoss community.
>
> If he is the source, then he isn't conducting himself in a
> business fashion.
> So what if I was being an ass(I can be at times, I admit it
> freely). Every
> single message from marc to me has been combative. Not all from
> me to this
> list have been the same.
>
IMHO, I'd rather work with somebody that is blunt. We don't have time to
pussyfoot around here.
> > There are 2 forms of currency here in the JBoss community.
> Contributions
> > through code, documentation, and/or answering questions on the
> > user-lists/forums. Or paying JBossGroup directly to implement features.
> > Yes, Adam, may be a good developer as you say, but who really cares? I
> > don't. Unless he contributes some of his solid design experience to our
> > community, I personally have no desire to answer one of his questions.
>
> How is one supposed to get started with jboss? Where is the voluminous
> documentation on how to start understanding the code, so one can start
> improving the software?
>
If you pay the $9.99, there you go ;-) Hmmm, I've never had trouble
figuring out how to contribute.....
> Is jboss-dev not a user list? Isn't discussion on this list a
> form of giving
> back?
>
jboss-dev is not a user list. It is a jboss contributor list.
> You don't care if I am a good developer? Then why did you say
> above that I
> have to prove myself, if you don't care.
>
Again, you get what you give. You're in a sea of good developers here. You
would cringe in fear at some of our resumes. You have to build trust and
respect in this community. We have all already done it and you're not doing
a good job of it so far.
Bill
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