Your approach would make the jmx-console essentially useless without a really big rewrite, so changing attributes results in destroying and reconstructing the mbean. Right now, if you pay attention to the service lifecycle, you can in fact change all these attributes. We can move the service-lifecycle awareness into the mbean interceptor stack, as I have mentioned. Meanwhile, why not make your tool lifecycle-aware.
Personally I think the jmx spec would profit from a service lifecycle idea. Some attributes are just most easily modeled as somewhat dependent on each other.
david jencks
On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 11:23 AM, Matt Munz wrote:
Scott,
Please see my response to Sacha.
Think of the MBean signature as a declared interface. The MBean is broadcasting this message, "You can write to me, you can write to me!". But it is lying. How can we write dependable software if our components do not obey the contracts they publish?
I'm not saying that the existing MBeans are crap or anything like that. I am saying that MBean Persistence, no matter how it is written, relies on the JMX interface, so let's write MBeans that do what they say they can do--no more, no less.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like JMX is being overused a bit. There are other ways to set a value on an object than through the MBean server. In this particular case, if the value is set before the mbean is loaded in the server, then no-biggie. The attribute can (and should) be RO, and this little utility I wrote can do its thing.
Also a general note: This service is not intended as the final design for MBean Persistence. It is just a little tool for taking and loading server snapshots, and it does seem to work alright for me.
- Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott M Stark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 11:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration Service
Your coupling the ability to change an attribute with triggering a restart of
the service. You may need to change serveral attributes and then restart a
service to achive the affect you want. If every setting of a RW attribute causes
the service to restart it could be a mess. If I change the port on the JRMP/RMI
invoker, what happens to all of the currently deployed EJBs?
If these attribute are changed to RO, then the server does not even startup as
we cannot apply *-service.xml attributes. JMX does not have a useable life cycle
and dependency notion at this point so the interface simply defines what can
be set. Itegrating how attribute changes trigger JBoss service life cycle states
is not a trivial issue.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Scott Stark
Chief Technology Officer
JBoss Group, LLC
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Munz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 6:59 AM
Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration Service
> Sacha,
>
> I don't really understand. What good is a RW attribute if changing it has no effect? If this is really the case, then I
think a lot of those RW attributes should be changed to RO. The whole idea of JMX is Management. The interface means
something, right?
>
> - Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Sacha Labourey
> Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 9:45 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration Service
>
>
> Oh, no, nothing wrong at all. It is just that while I can easily see an advantage to take a snapshot of a server config for
future reference or analysis, re-loading a previous seems as hazardous to me because the configuration should really be
applied when the mbeans are created, not afterwards because many settings would then have no effects at all (such as port
numbers, etc.)
>
> Thank you. cheers,
>
>
> Sacha
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Matt Munz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]De la part de Matt Munz
> Envoyé : vendredi, 24 janvier 2003 15:35
> À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Objet : RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration Service
>
>
> Sacha,
>
> No. Nothing fancy going on here. Just a quick one-off proof-of-concept deal. What it does is make text-file-based mbean
persistence available today, in a format perhaps more amenable to vi hackers.
>
> It's pretty simple to use -- why don't you just drop it in deploy and try it out...
>
> Basically, it takes and loads snapshots. Simple and useable. I suppose it could be modified to do other things...
>
> What is wrong with the jboss-service.xml files? I'm curious -- What are you getting at?
>
> - Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sacha Labourey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Fri 1/24/2003 8:00 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc:
> Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration Service
>
>
>
> Can it be used at server startup instead of the jboss-service.xml, etc.
> files? i.e. can it create all Mbeans and apply all attributes value at
> runtime or can he "only" capture an instant snapshot of the current values?
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]De la part de Matt
> > Munz
> > Envoyé : mercredi, 22 janvier 2003 19:39
> > À : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Objet : RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > Configuration Service
> >
> >
> > BTW, I realize that the name "Master Configuration Service" may
> > be misleading. It only configures the JMX RW attributes, and
> > isn't really intended as a fundamental architectural component,
> > but rather as an optional tool and a POC for the flexibility of JMX.
> >
> > - Matt
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Matt Munz
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:14 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > Configuration Service
> >
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I read the forum, and I'm not sure how this relates to MBean
> > Persistence. Your examples seem to be AOP-specific. Could you
> > give an example of what the integration of this stuff with JMX
> > would be like (if that is what you intend)?
> >
> > - Matt
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Burke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:13 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > Configuration Service
> >
> >
> > I am doing some things around MetaData and centralized configuration and
> > configuration chains in AOP that I'd like to merge with the rest of JBoss.
> > Please see the topic configuration and metadata in the AOP forum.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Matt
> > > Munz
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:47 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master
> > > Configuration Service
> > >
> > >
> > > Dain,
> > >
> > > I put this together with your use cases in mind. If possible,
> > > check it out, and let me know what you think.
> > >
> > > - Matt
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: SourceForge.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:29 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: [JBoss-dev] [ jboss-Change Notes-672538 ] Master Configuration
> > > Service
> > >
> > >
> > > Change Notes item #672538, was opened at 2003-01-22 11:28
> > > You can respond by visiting:
> > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=381174&aid=67253
> > > 8&group_id=22866
> > >
> > > Category: None
> > > Group: None
> > > Status: Open
> > > Priority: 5
> > > Submitted By: Matthew Munz (mattmunz)
> > > Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
> > > Summary: Master Configuration Service
> > >
> > > Initial Comment:
> > > A Service which writes and reads all of the JMX RW
> > > attributes to a single file in the Java Properties Format.
> > >
> > > I figured that this would be a good step on the road to an
> > > XML MBean Persistence engine. This service operates
> > > externally to the MBeans it persists. It is not really in
> > > line with the JMX spec, so it doesn't provide MBean
> > > Persistence in the way implied by the spec.
> > > Nonetheless, a "snapshot" of the server can be written
> > > and loaded quite easily.
> > >
> > > The details can be found in the documentation located
> > > under $jboss-head/varia/src/reources/master-
> > > config.sar/documentation .
> > >
> > > There are a few little details that should probably be
> > > ironed out, but for those that need MBean persistence
> > > today, this is a viable solution.
> > >
> > > The main audience for this tool is the system admin that
> > > does not use or prefer gui / html configuration tools. The
> > > use of the Properties file format is intentional, as it
> > > provides a more compact and readible interface when
> > > compared with the XML format.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure about the location of this code in the source
> > > tree, so I just put it in varia for now. I'd appreciate any
> > > ideas on a better place for it.
> > >
> > > - Matt Munz
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > You can respond by visiting:
> > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=381174&aid=67253
> > 8&group_id=22866
> >
> >
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