Dear All, Its my suggestion to serious people on this listserve that you should not pay any attention to these right wing "jokers" who have been trying to hijack this forum by posting highly offensive material. The more we repsond to them, the more leverage they get. Just ignore them, and delete the emails that they send. Extremists like these exist in all societies, and our efforts should be to fight them substantively- there is no use engaging with them through dialogue. They are just not open to reason and rationality - and negate the very conception of deliberation and dialogue - which lies at the heart of shared listserves such as this.
Will someone who is day to day engaged in Jharkhand issues like to start a new listserve which is more moderated than this one- where insults to various religions and religious minorities are moderated out. I would love to join it and contribute on development issues. I had requested our rightwing hindutvavadi brothers to migrate some other listserve, but they seem to love the megaphone that this listserve affords them. For those who would like to see a moderated listserve which allows respectful discussions - please visit chattisgarhnet- which maintains a fine line between freedom of speech and creation of offense through serious moderation. Regards Nachiketa On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:43 AM, BARBARA ali <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dearest Walter, > > Fernandes with a (s) is English and (z) is Spanish, wonder if you know > this!!! Anyway we are now Indians first and Indians last.So thanks for the > few lines and hope all these apes on this site stop aping about with rubbish > and go on with the development of our youth who are suffering so much due to > idiots like these who are using politics to batter our present day youth out > of jobs, schooling and higher education too. > > Religion is man made, so be it and let us unite for a better future and > solve the many problems of our youth of today, tomorrow they are the ones to > lead India on. > > We are rotten examples of a few rotting apples in the whats left of the > good ones in India today. > > I thought only Anglo Indians were like crabs in a over crowded backet, > pulling each other back as one tries to climb out of the over crowded basket > to make place for the rest. > > May God give us the strength to fight corruptiona nd injustice all the way > , before its too late. > > > > All the best in all you do, > > Barbara Thyab Ali > > > ------------------------------ > To: [email protected] > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:38:54 +0530 > > Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ Jharkhand ] Conversion law : > Mahatma Gandhi on Conversions > > I agree with you Barbara. I was very happy when I started getting the > material from the Jharkhand group because I have worked on tribal issues for > three decades. Soon I realised that some fundamentalist elements have taken > it over and were indulging in name calling and making all types of > allegations. There was no dialogue. I hope that some sense will prevail in > this e-group. > > Walter Fernandes > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* BARBARA ali <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:01 PM > *Subject:* RE: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ Jharkhand ] Conversion law : > Mahatma Gandhi on Conversions > > Dear All, > > > Indeed this makes us look like silly Goats!!!! After all who are the real > ancestors of us, from where and who are you all come from???APES????? or > Scape Goats!!!!!????? > > Let us all begin, with the simple lesson of 'Humility' and 'Respect' for > each other.Put a stop to this topic and pick up some thing more of interest > and encouragement to the Youth Of India Today. Help them to pick up their > pieces and go on with their lives instead of such endless waste of exchange > on a site that could help develop Indians. > > Bye, > > Barbara. > > > > > ------------------------------ > To: [email protected] > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:27:27 +0100 > Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ Jharkhand ] Conversion law : > Mahatma Gandhi on Conversions > > > Dear All > "*Aping of Europeans and Americans* as quoted by > Venkitesh .... > > > > As I wander about through the length and > > breath of India I see > > many Christian Indians almost ashamed of their > > birth, certainly of their > > ancestral religion, and of their ancestral dress. > > The aping of Europeans by > > Anglo-Indians is bad enough, but the aping of them > > by Indian converts is a > > violence done to their country and, shall I say, > > even to their new religion. > > (Young > > > > India: August 8, 1925)" > > As far as apping of the west is concerned it is > certainly not limited to Christians. OPEN your eyes > and look around you and you will agrre that APING of > the WEST is ceratinly not "Christian or Anglo Indian" > phenomenon. > > APING OF THE WEST has nothing to do with > Christianity!! CHRISTIANITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE > WEST. > > Mahatma Gandhi was certainly a great leader and > deserves to be father of the nation but every thing > that he wrote or said or believed is not sacrosanct ! > > I have not read personally the criteria for NOBEL > PEACE PRIZE nominations but As far as his not being > given the Nobel Peace prize because he was not a > CHRISTIAN is a pack of lies and distorting the issue. > Just like you gave sources of references for other > quotes can you please give us your refernces for this > in particular paragraph !!! > > Was Nathuram Godse sent from the " dark forces" to > eliminate him ?? The political leaders of Nathuram > Godse belonged to must share the blame to a degree in > killing so brutally a man who has influenced the world > to think of NON VIOLENCE. > > William Kisku > > --- venkitesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 26 Apr 2008 17:50:37 -0000, Gladson Dungdung > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > Father of the Nationa, Mahatma Gandhi had very > > clear idies about it. He > > > said that I'm a sanatan Hindu and it's my personal > > matter therefore the > > > state should not dictate my religion. > > > > > > > Most conversions are thru inducements, coercions of > > the poor. How many of > > them have studied the bible, comtemplated and > > decided the new religion was > > better for them. Now this is something that I and > > others would not object > > since it is done without any inducement and this is > > what freedom of religion > > means. > > > > Since Gladson roped in Mahatma Gandhi for his > > support. Here is what the > > mahatma said > > > > > > > > Mahatma Gandhi on Conversion > > > > Gandhiji was not awarded the Nobel peace > > prize because he > > refused to be converted. Now that missionaries are > > spreading their tentacles > > far and wide in India converting people by > > allurement, inducement and fraud > > (In the north east killings and threats are becoming > > commonplace) Gandhiji's > > message is all the more relevant in understanding > > and reacting to this > > problem. Missionary Terrorism will become as > > dangerous as Islamic terrorism > > if ignored. Please read & distribute. > > > > Compiled by Swami Aksharananda > > > > (Track No. 010119.1, Jan. 19, 2001) > > > > *I Call Myself a Sanatani Hindu* > > > > I call myself a Sanatani Hindu, because > > I believe in the Vedas, > > the Upanishads, the Puranas, and all that goes by > > the name of Hindu > > scripture, and therefore in avataras and rebirth; I > > believe in the > > varnashrama dharma in a sense, in my opinion > > strictly Vedic but not in its > > presently popular and distorted crude sense; I > > believe in the protection of > > cow. I do not disbelieve in murti puja. (Young > > India: June 10, 1921) > > > > > > *Why I am Not a Convert* > > > > Hinduism as I know it entirely satisfies > > my soul, fills my whole > > being. When doubts haunt me, when disappointments > > stare me in the face, and > > when I see not one ray of light on the horizon, I > > turn to the Bhagavad Gita, > > and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately > > begin to smile in the > > midst of overwhelming sorrow. My life has been full > > of tragedies and if they > > have not left any visible and indelible effect on > > me, I owe it to the > > teachings of the Bhagavad Gita. (Young India: June > > 8, 1925) > > > > *I Disbelieve in Conversion* > > > > I disbelieve in the conversion of one > > person by another. My > > effort should never to be to undermine another's > > faith. This implies belief > > in the truth of all religions and, therefore, > > respect for them. It implies > > true humility. (Young India: April 23, 1931) > > > > *Conversion: Impediment to Peace* > > > > It is impossible for me to reconcile > > myself to the idea of > > conversion after the style that goes on in India and > > elsewhere today. It is > > an error which is perhaps the greatest impediment to > > the world's progress > > toward peace. Why should a Christian want to convert > > a Hindu to > > Christianity? Why should he not be satisfied if the > > Hindu is a good or godly > > man? (Harijan: January 30, 1937) > > > > *No Such Thing as Conversion* > > > > I believe that there is no such thing as > > conversion from one > > faith to another in the accepted sense of the word. > > It is a highly personal > > matter for the individual and his God. I may not > > have any design upon my > > neighbour as to his faith which I must honour even > > as I honour my own. > > Having reverently studied the scriptures of the > > world I could no more think > > of asking a Christian or a Musalman, or a Parsi or a > > Jew to change his faith > > than I would think of changing my own. (Harijan: > > September 9, 1935) > > > > *No Conversion Designs Upon Me* > > > > I am not interested in weaning you from > > Christianity and making > > you Hindu, and I do not relish your designs upon me, > > if you had any, to > > convert me to Christianity. I would also dispute > > your claim that > > Christianity is the only true religion. (Harijan: > > June 3, 1937) > > > > *Conversion* > > > > Conversion must not mean > > denationalization. Conversion should > > mean a definite giving up of the evil of the old, > > adoption of all the good > > of the new and a scrupulous avoidance of everything > > evil in the new. > > Conversion, therefore, should mean a life of greater > > dedication to one's > > country, greater surrender to God, greater > > self-purification. (Young India: > > August 20, 1925) > > > > *Aping of Europeans and Americans* > > > > As I wander about through the length and > > breath of India I see > > many Christian Indians almost ashamed of their > > birth, certainly of their > > ancestral religion, and of their ancestral dress. > > The aping of Europeans by > > Anglo-Indians is bad enough, but the aping of them > > by Indian converts is a > > violence done to their country and, shall I say, > > even to their new religion. > > (Young > > > > India: August 8, 1925) > > > > *Why Should I Change My Religion* > > > > I hold that proselytisation under the > > cloak of humanitarian work > > is unhealthy to say the least. It is most resented > > by people here. Religion > > after all is a deeply personal thing. It touches the > > heart. > > > > Why should I change my religion because > > the doctor who professes > > Christianity as his religion has cured me of some > > disease, or why should the > > doctor expect me to change whilst I am under his > > influence? (Young India: > > April 23, 1931) > > > > *Missionary Aim: Uprooting Hinduism* > > > > My fear is that though Christian friends > > nowadays do not say or > > admit it that Hindu religion is untrue, they must > > harbour in their breast > > that Hinduism is an error and that Christianity, as > > they believe it, is the > > only true religion. So far as one can understand the > > present (Christian) > > effort, it is to uproot Hinduism from her very > > foundation and replace it by > > > > another faith. (Harijan: March 13,1937) > > > > *Undermining People's Faith* > > > > The first distinction I would like to > > make between your > > > === message truncated === > > William Kisku > > > > > *Jharkhand Forum* <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/> > <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > * * > > > > > > > * Jharkhand.org.in/forum * <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/forum> > <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > * * > > > >
