I agree with you Braja Mishra that all of us need to examine ourselves very seriously. Mistakes have been made by all and they have to be situated in a historical context - according to the mentality of those times. I have studied tribal history and have worked among them. I do not agree with you that missionaries instilled hatred for others. However, they gave an exclusive approach and that separated Christian from Sarna tribals. Today we need to give priority to the tribal identity. Since all the organisations you and I belong to have in some form been instrumental in dividing the tribals, we should today make a positive effort to get over our history and support the tribal communities in their search for unity and development according to their ethos. They can remain Sarna, Hindu or Christian according to their choice. We should not impose our religious conflicts on them and thus divide them when they need unity to demand their rights. My main area of study has been deveopment-induced displacement. I have studied displacement 1947-2000 in 12 States and realise that of the 60 million persons displaced all over the country during this period, 40 percent are tribals and at least 20 percent are Dalits. Enormous impoverishment has been the consequence and it is getting worse. I began with a study of the link between the forests and tribal economy and realised that impoverishment began with that. Land alienation that I studied next added to it. From there I went on to displacement and realised the injustice we have done to the tribals and Dalits. Conversion was a part of a search for equality among the Dalits and for protection of their livelihood among the tribals. The Dalits have not attained their objective and the tribals have attained it only partially. While the missionaries transferred an exclusive mentality to them according to the thinking of their times, they also worked out the Chotanagpur Tenancy Act 1908 and the Chotanagpur Cooperative Society which has saved much of their land. So we cannot speak of a black and while situation. One has only to take over from there and go towards the future. Bye
Walter Fernandes ----- Original Message ----- From: Braja Mishra To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 10:08 AM Subject: RE: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ Jharkhand ] Conversion law To my understanding there was never any deliberate attempt to Hiduise the tribals before. This is a recent development, just to counter the Christian missionary activities. The work done by Christian missionaries in the field of Education and Health is really commendable, but there are many negative fall outs too. Through proselytisation they instill hatredness in the minds of innocent dalit and tribals towards their pristine religion/faith or for that matter Hinduism. This is not just a sweeping statement, but I say this out of my long experience of working with people. I do agree that amongst the Hindus there are lot of superstitious and inhuman practices , which requires a sort of radical approach to bring any reform and in the process the class and caste conflicts are inevitable. Unfortunately we educated people are equally blind with superstitious thoughts and perpetuate and glorify the wrong and inhuman practices !! In stead, we should spread rationalism and instill scientific outlook in the minds of people, where RELIGION should be Human Religion, a religion where human being is respected, loved and cared, the animal world and bio-diversity should be nurtured with all love and care. Why you people waste your energy in this kind of debate ? Of course, if you have vested interest then I have nothing to say. BS -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vikash singh Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:39 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ Jharkhand ] Conversion law Dear Mr. Walter, Tribals are Hindoos, becoz we are natives and natives by default are Hindoos. Now you are coming up with theory that tribal are different, your point of view is just to divide the natives, so that they can be converted easily. Mr. Walter Fernandes, you are racist and missionary, and now my question, how much money have you received from your Church(read Eurppe) for coming up with this theory. What was your purpose of visiting whole of India(Was it to see, who are potential target for your conversion). ******************************************* with best regards Vikash S. --- Walter Fernandes <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:nesrcghy%40gmail.com> > wrote: > Venkitesh, it is a fallacy to say that traditional > beliefs in India have been living side by side for > ages. I have toured much of India, especially tribal > India and have seen the type of damage non-tribal > religions have done to the tribal culture which is > different from Hinduism. So don't tell me that it is > all right for the tribals to be Hinduised and bad to > be Christianised. Let us have some respect for the > tribals and not impose our own religion on them and > then accuse someone else of destroying their > culture. In other words, the tribals are human > beings and are not to be turned into tools of our > propaganda. > > Walter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: venkitesh > To: [email protected] <mailto:Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 1:00 PM > Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ Jharkhand > ] Conversion law : Mahatma Gandhi on Conversions > > > > Walter > > Traditional beliefs in India have been living side > by side, peacefully and harmoniously for millenia. > Problems have emerged eg Khandamanl violence only > since the advent of highly aggressive, intolerant > crafty missionary. organizations. > > Venkitesh > > > On 5/7/08, North Eastern Social Research Centre > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:nesrcghy%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > You are right Ven. I tour Arunachal Pradesh > regularly. There I see how every effort is made to > Hinduise the tribals and move them away from their > original religion. Those who convert them to > Hinduism impose a saffron culture on them. They also > keep a few tribal customs but Hinduise them. I agree > with you that once the trribals are converted to an > alien religion they lose everything they have. > > Walter > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ven > To: [email protected] <mailto:Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 3:00 PM > Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ > Jharkhand ] Conversion law : Mahatma Gandhi on > Conversions > > > > People who want to supress discussions on > missionary activities have their own hidden agenda. > > Tribals in Jharkhand possess tremendous > knowledge about their environment. They are the > guardians of the land. They know the medicinal > plants, the animals, the local culture, the gods, > .... they will never go and destroy their > environment. So for a healthy economy, it is vital > the jharkand tribals safeguard their knowledge. > > Once they convert to alien religion, they > lose everything. They become another consumer based > society and all hte ills thereoff. > I would suggest the tribals ensure they get > good education from the missionary schools so that > they are abreast with the modern times, but never, > never, give up your local gods and beliefs for > anything alien. > > Venkat > > > On 5/1/08, North Eastern Social Research > Centre <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:nesrcghy%40gmail.com> > wrote: > > I agree with you Barbara. I was very happy > when I started getting the material from the > Jharkhand group because I have worked on tribal > issues for three decades. Soon I realised that some > fundamentalist elements have taken it over and were > indulging in name calling and making all types of > allegations. There was no dialogue. I hope that some > sense will prevail in this e-group. > > Walter Fernandes > ----- Original Message ----- > From: BARBARA ali > To: [email protected] <mailto:jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:01 PM > Subject: RE: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ > Jharkhand ] Conversion law : Mahatma Gandhi on > Conversions > > > Dear All, > > > Indeed this makes us look like silly > Goats!!!! After all who are the real ancestors of > us, from where and who are you all come > from???APES????? or Scape Goats!!!!!????? > > Let us all begin, with the simple lesson > of 'Humility' and 'Respect' for each other.Put a > stop to this topic and pick up some thing more of > interest and encouragement to the Youth Of India > Today. Help them to pick up their pieces and go on > with their lives instead of such endless waste of > exchange on a site that could help develop Indians. > > Bye, > > Barbara. > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > To: [email protected] <mailto:Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:wk2002%40btopenworld.com> > Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 12:27:27 +0100 > Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ > Jharkhand ] Conversion law : Mahatma Gandhi on > Conversions > > > > Dear All > "*Aping of Europeans and Americans* as > quoted by > Venkitesh .... > > > > As I wander about through the length > and > > breath of India I see > > many Christian Indians almost ashamed > of their > > birth, certainly of their > > ancestral religion, and of their > ancestral dress. > > The aping of Europeans by > > Anglo-Indians is bad enough, but the > aping of them > > by Indian converts is a > > violence done to their country and, > shall I say, > > even to their new religion. > > (Young > > > > India: August 8, 1925)" > > As far as apping of the west is > concerned it is > certainly not limited to Christians. > OPEN your eyes > and look around you and you will agrre > that APING of > the WEST is ceratinly not "Christian or > Anglo Indian" > phenomenon. > > APING OF THE WEST has nothing to do with > Christianity!! CHRISTIANITY HAS NOTHING > TO DO WITH THE > WEST. > > Mahatma Gandhi was certainly a great > leader and > deserves to be father of the nation but > every thing > that he wrote or said or believed is not > sacrosanct ! > > I have not read personally the criteria > for NOBEL > PEACE PRIZE nominations but As far as > his not being > given the Nobel Peace prize because he > was not a > CHRISTIAN is a pack of lies and > distorting the issue. > Just like you gave sources of references > for other > quotes can you please give us your > refernces for this > in particular paragraph !!! > > Was Nathuram Godse sent from the " dark > forces" === message truncated ===
