Mary E. Pitassi wrote: > Catherine wrote, and Colin responded: > > ">I'm like that too. I hate it. I always pick bastards. > >What's my friggin' problem? > > > The problem does lie with you. Not that you only imagine them to be > bastards but that you are attracted to and accept treatment/behaviour > that is detrimental to you but that you are used to. Once we have > learned to value our own selves, we cease to be attracted to those that > don't value us. [. . . ]" > > OK. Colin, I get this; I really do. But doesn't at least some of > the problem lie with the bastards for being. . .well, JERKS??
No where was i suggesting that we are responsible for someone else's behaviour. not at all. We are however responsible for our own and what we allow.IF we allow others to treat us badly, then yes we are responsible for that. We have given our permission. A person with a good sense of self just does not allow themselves to be treated badly consistently. We cannot do much about random bad treatment from strangers but we can do much about bad treatment from those we have in our lives. > > But I can't help but think that some people put up with abuse > because they are fundamentally loving and trusting. Wouldn't it be nice if that were so? There are many people who are fundamentally loving and trusting who still value themselves and they don't take shit from people. > They believe, for too long, and against all evidence to the > contrary, that the person they care about is basically good and > decent, and/or will change. The result is bad, certainly, but is the > hope? yes because it is at their expense. besides, if someone is truly 'believing' for too long and despite the evidence, then love and trust is not the driving force. it is more likely fear, guilt, shame, a refusal to take responsibility, a refusal to see things as they are instead of how they want them to be. Also, one can believe on one level that one is being trusting and kind and loving and all those good things when actually what one is driven by is fear and guilt and shame. But they don't sound so good do they? > > This line of thought also sometimes reminds me of the trend in some > "New Age" thought to emphasize the power of positive thinking to > counter life-threatening illnesses. . .with the very damaging flip > side that, if the patient doesn't recover quickly or, God forbid, > dies, they must not have been "positive" enough. It's his or her own > fault. i find that appalling and have said so here before now. It is just another way of avoiding what we don't want to acknowledge, a way of kidding ourselves that we have power when we have none, another form of whistling in the dark. However, it is really not the same thing that we are talking about. > > But doesn't the ultimate root of the illness/negativity lie elsewhere? no. it lies with all concerned. Personal responsibility means us too! if we consistently allow, give someone permission to, behave badly, then yes, we are responsible too. Does our withdrawing our permission change that person? No. not if it is just us. They just latch onto someone else. However, if EVERYONE refused to accept the unacceptable, where would that leave the person acting out? No where to go, alone, isolated, fearful, and no audience. Their acting out would cease. So, as unpalatable as it feels, we are more responsible than we like to think. The fact that we are good people acting out of love and trust whilst they are the bad people, is really just a lie we tell ourselves to avoid having to see ourselves. This does NOT mean that vile behaviour and treatment is excusable or caused exclusively by us. As you know, I was in an abusive situation all thru my childhood. i was not responsible for that,i couldn't be, I was a child. HOWEVER, I am responsible for the fact I allowed it go on into adulthood. I am responsible for putting myself in harms way consistently. Did I do it out of love and trust? I thought so. But I came to realise I did it out of shame and guilt and fear(and in that particular situation because of one of the Commandments) and a refusal to accept my powerlessness and a fundamental lack of respect for myself. Not only that, I went on to repeat this same scenario with other people till, after a lot more anguish, i finally got it! People treated me badly because I let them. simple. I don't have people like that in my life anymore. i'd rather be lonely, be considered odd, be an outcast, be a loner, than to have my self abused again. I will not allow my compassion for someone, let me be abused again.I will not let my desire to be accepted and liked allow me to be abused again. None of it was easy to learn, let alone understand, and the truth of it is not what i wanted to hear. But the rightness of this understanding has born good healthy fruit, so it holds validity for me.
