Dear Friends, Reading the mails on suicide has given me much thought. Here is what I feel about it.
Suicide is a condition where a man is lead to believe the delusions that satan creates around him, he starts believing what satan says, and loses all hope and trust in the Lord, fears the worst , and when, on his own he sees no way out, he ends his life. But the Lord , wont he get angry and saddened, when a soul loses his trust in HIM, ... and we see in the Gopsel, wheh Jesus went out to his own village, He could not perform miracles there because of the lack of faith of the people of that town.. so if a person loses his faith in the Lord, and trust more of his own self and the lies of the tempter, is he not lost already ? OR ... for another illusion, take the book of Job, there, we find a conversation between the LORD and the devil.... chapter 1:6-12 (6when the day came for the heavenly beings to appear before the Lord, Satan was there among them.7 The Lord asked him, "what have you been doing?" Satan answered, "I have been walking here and there, roaming around the earth."8 "Did you notice my servant Job ?" the Lord asked. "There is no one on earthas faithful and good as he is . he worships me and is careful not to do any evil". 9 Satan replied,"Would Job worship you if he got nothing out of it ? 10 you have always protected him and his family! and everything he owns. you bless everything he does, and you have given him enough cattle to fill the whole country. 11 But now suppose you take away everything he has- he will curse you to your face!" 12 "All right," the Lord said to satan, "everything he has is in your power, but you must not hurt Job himself". So satan left. Infact, there is a challenge placed before the lord... and satan asks for a testing time for Job, and the Lord agrees, as long as the devil does not harm Job's soul... and despite the tests, here satan fails. BUT in the case of suicide, the soul decides to give up his spirit and then, satan wins, and God loses the challenge.... SO that would also mean that the person is already lost to the devil. How then can we reclaim him from the devil ? when a person decides to commit suicide, he is proving the Lord's trust in that soul as wrong.. and defeats the Lord, how then can he be with the Lord again ? It would be like having the devil's supporter in heaven. Our God is a jealous God, and he would have no rivals. so what i feel is that when a person commits suicide, he is LOST permanently. Also, think of what Judas did,.. after betraying the Lord, he felt guilty, but did not ask for forgiveness, but he too was tempted by the devil and committed suicide, and the bible nowhere mentions that Judas Iscariot was saved by prayers , and is in heaven. What I believe is that, when a person dies , other than by suicide, and was a believer in Christ before he died, his soul would go to purgatory to make amends for the sins he committed while he was on earth. That soul would not reach heaven until he pays back for the sins he committed deliberately. Paryers for such as him, would help reduce his suffering and enable him to reach heaven speedily. Yes, thru Jesus all our sins are forgiven, by sins I mean personal sins. Now sins when committed affect both the soul and the community he lives in. ( Remember sodom and Gomorrah, where the sins of the people made God punish the whole city) when a person commits a sin, he sins against God and against his community or city. And the effects of his sin make the place around him sinful. Our own personal sin is cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb, BUT we have to do good the wrong we did against the city/community. If we do not make good the wrong we did, our sins against the community would grow in amount , so much so that God may end up destroying whole cities, or the cities may become so foul that younger generations would become foul. And that is why OUR LADY appears in many parts of the world asking for penence and sacrifices ----Original Message Follows---- From: "JASON:)" Dear Alfred Samji and Dear JYs Reading Alfred's mail to my query was really inspiring. However I find some of these points relatively new to me. Maybe cause I have never come across any teaching on them. Take for example Alfred quoting 1 Peter 3:18 to 4:6 stated that God preaches to those who are already dead so that they might live in obedience to God in their lives as spirits. In short they are given another chance to be in God's fold. This is really new to me. Also quoting Mt:12:32 There is a reference to a World to Come. Now I do know that some denom like the Jehovahs really quote this part fluently. So what is this Comin World that Jesus Speaks about. Now when I had queried about Suicide in another list, these are some of the replies I got. 1. Suicide is murder and since your dead when you commit the sin you can't ask for forgiveness... 2. Suicide is a question that must be left to God to judge. Medical scientists tell us that the brain lives for perhaps four or five minutes after the body dies; you can do a LOT of praying in that time. However, only God will judge anyone anyway. We can 'settle the question' for ourselves by believing in Jesus, but it is presumptious to attempt to condemn OR excuse anyone else. God alone knows their heart. 3. The question ask about suicide is a very good one. Some time ago I was called to the psyco ward at a local hospital. A young man had attempted to take his own life.I ask him if he had ever given his life to God, and he said he had.I told him that he would have had to take his life back from God's hands in order to destroy it. A few days later his mother came to see me at the church. She thanked me, and She told me that because of what I had said to her son, he would never again attempt suicide. Sometime later he died in an automobile accident. urs in faith Jason Mumbai ================================================ If you don't want the fruits of sin, stay out of the devil's orchard. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alfred Samji To: Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 6:44 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: Re: [JOYnet] Suicide : A Query (My comments) > Hi friends, > Just wanted to put up my comments on this subject. We all know that suicide > is a sin. Killing whether it be of self or of another person of course is > condemned in the 10 commandments. The point now is whether praying for a > dead sinner makes any difference to the salvation of that person. In Matt > 12:32 Jesus Himself tells of an afterlife where sins will be forgiven. He > talks of two worlds where sins will be forgiven i.e. 'in this world' and > 'the world to come'. > > [M't:12:32: And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall > be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not > be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.] > > This clearly depicts of another world after the death of a person, where > sins can be forgiven i.e 'the world to come'. > > We also have proof in 1 Peter 3:18 to 4:6 where Peter from 3:18 goes on to > 4:6 and tells of how Christ after being killed on the cross visited the > 'spirits in prison' i.e the spirits of those who were disobedient in the > days of Noah. It is said that Christ went to them and preached the gospel to > them so that in their life as spirits they might 'live according to God in > the spirit'. > > [1Pe:3:18: For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the > unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but > quickened by the Spirit:19: By which also he went and preached unto the > spirits in prison;20: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the > longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a > preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. > 1Pe:4:6: For for this cause was the gospel preached also > to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the > flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.] > > This again depicts a world where God preaches to those who are already dead > so that they might live in obedience to God in their lives as spirits. In > short they are given another chance to be in God's fold. > We read in Genesis of how big the sins of those people spoken of here were. > > In the context of the Rich man who came to Jesus we see Jesus first telling > of how difficult it is for the rich to enter the kingdom and later goes on > to say 'With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.' > (M't:19:23 to 26). Our God is a loving God. His likeness is that of love. He > is full of mercy and compassion and it is solely because that He loves us > that He sacrificed His only Son on the cross to save us, to make us part of > His family. > > Our loving Father will not turn down an appeal for mercy by one of His own > children for another. Praise the Lord. > > > > Regards in Christ, > > Samji / Dubai ================================================ If you don't want the fruits of sin, stay out of the devil's orchard. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Herbert To: Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 9:40 PM Subject: [JOYnet] Suicide : A Query > Dear JYs > > We have recently read the 2 Part mails of Father Thomas on whether Sucide is > a Sin or not. It was really a wonderful sharing. I had recently been for a > Retreat. There the Priest had mentioned that a Person committing Suicide is > as good as Handing over ur Soul to the Satan. > > My Question is : Considering that a person commits Suicide and knowing that > his Soul is as good as lost. Is then fruitful then praying for his Soul or > would it be waste to do so > > Please note i am not saying that it is waste to pray for any1. But > considering in this case of suicide or like euthanasia whatever the case may > be would it be fruitful then to pray for that soul. > > I would really love ur views on this. > > urs in faith > > Jason > Mumbai > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > **************************************************************** > This mail is generated from JOYnet, a Jesus Youth mailing list. > To unsubscribe, send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe to this mailing list, visit > http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet > For automatic help, send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In case of any issue related to the mailing list contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > **************************************************************** **************************************************************** This mail is generated from JOYnet, a Jesus Youth mailing list. 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