you have a faster machine then, plus proper installation. Can you provide
your results?

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:02 PM, David Zhou <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Otherwise, I also tested on Firefox and Safari on OS X where there are
> (I think) more accurate timers.
>
> -- dz
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:01 PM, David Zhou <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I booted into two dedicated Windows partitions that have IE6 and IE7
> > installed respectively.  This was on a Core 2 Duo 2.4, so YMMV.
> >
> > -- dz
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Andrea Giammarchi
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Those times are averages and I performed the test 5 times for each
> browser.
> >>
> >> I would like to know if you used IE tester ( my choice ) rather than
> >> Multiple IE
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:17 PM, David Zhou <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I did, and it doesn't quite match up to your times -- which could be
> >>> due to machine differences or any number of reasons.  Pure DOM was
> >>> still significantly faster, but not as much as the numbers shown in
> >>> your case.
> >>>
> >>> This is why I asked for more details about the tests you ran.
> >>>
> >>> -- dz
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Andrea Giammarchi
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> > if you want to try the test you can visit this page:
> >>> > http://bill.dojotoolkit.org/taskspeed/
> >>> >
> >>> > or create a local TaskSpeed implementation
> >>> >
> >>> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 3:19 PM, David Zhou <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> How many times did you run your tests? Are these averages?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Also, did you try the tests on a non-Windows XP or Vista machine to
> >>> >> get more accurate results? (At least for Firefox and Opera).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I don't doubt that pure DOM manipulation is going to be faster, but
> >>> >> it's certainly surprising to see how much faster it is than any
> >>> >> library.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> -- dz
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Gilles <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > I understand better your point, but I think to an extend people
> use
> >>> >> > libraries for left side of the equation like you said, which is
> >>> >> > probably why library developers seems to concentrate more on that.
> >>> >> > Also I think JQuery is on the right track as the latest releases
> were
> >>> >> > about improving performance rather than adding some other cool
> stuff
> >>> >> > to it. Frankly I think it got enough cool stuff already, but I am
> >>> >> > looking forward to the require() addition tho.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > The thing is tho, if a library doesn't support the cool stuff it
> will
> >>> >> > be seen as not up to date with the competition and it will lose
> some
> >>> >> > of its popularity. And most people who use those libraries are not
> >>> >> > always that worried about the performance side of things, often it
> is
> >>> >> > more developer that tend to worry about that and frankly by my
> work
> >>> >> > experience I can say even in professional environment there isn't
> >>> >> > enough of them that actually care. You still have tonnes of
> companies
> >>> >> > doing web application that will not behave well outside IE, no
> >>> >> > validation, no multibrowser support, no javascript off support
> >>> >> > etc....
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Personally I like to have my little benchmark and try to improve
> >>> >> > speed
> >>> >> > and all (mostly in php still, in javascript I still got a lot to
> >>> >> > learn, too often wrong :p)
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Hopefully things will get better in the future now that IE8 is out
> >>> >> > (also the number of current IE6 users still alarming), it's still
> not
> >>> >> > perfect of course, but the few things I tried on it so far behave
> >>> >> > more
> >>> >> > like they are suppose to.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Wouldn't be nice when you can just code thing the way they should
> and
> >>> >> > they would work everywhere. Imagine the footprint of everything
> >>> >> > without all the lines for IE and other weird borsers lol
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > On Apr 2, 12:32 pm, Andrea Giammarchi <
> [email protected]>
> >>> >> > wrote:
> >>> >> >> performances improvements and 44 seconds rather than 3 do not
> make
> >>> >> >> sense,
> >>> >> >> imho.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> What I am saying is that we, as libraries developers, just put
> >>> >> >> layers
> >>> >> >> to
> >>> >> >> make IE behaves like every other cool browser.
> >>> >> >> This layer at the same time is slowing down IE speed, which has
> >>> >> >> already
> >>> >> >> the
> >>> >> >> worse JS engine ever, compared to others.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> So, the equation is simple: cool stuff : IE = performances : bad
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> I am sure a lot of code is focused just on the left part of the
> >>> >> >> equation
> >>> >> >> while should be nice, in my opinion, to consider more the right
> side
> >>> >> >> when it
> >>> >> >> is possible.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Better?
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gilles <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > Déjá vus are actually well explained in the latest New
> Scientist,
> >>> >> >> > very
> >>> >> >> > cool stuff :)
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > I think you might want to highlight JQuery 1.3.2 and DOM
> instead
> >>> >> >> > of
> >>> >> >> > JQuery 1.2.6 tho as the performanace improved dramatically
> since
> >>> >> >> > then.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > But I just don't get what you are saying by saying that
> libraries
> >>> >> >> > (not
> >>> >> >> > talking about JQuery only, cos I am only a user) are not
> optimized
> >>> >> >> > for
> >>> >> >> > IE. Any libraries will have a huge amount of lines that are
> >>> >> >> > dedicated
> >>> >> >> > to IE, cos IE just can't use standards properly. Unless of
> course
> >>> >> >> > as
> >>> >> >> > usual I don't get it cos the translation doesn't go well lol
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > If it wasn't for IE the number of check in libraries would be
> >>> >> >> > smaller
> >>> >> >> > and libraries would probably be faster lol
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > On Apr 2, 11:05 am, Andrea Giammarchi
> >>> >> >> > <[email protected]>
> >>> >> >> > wrote:
> >>> >> >> > > dejavou ... I am not blaming any library and obviously it is
> not
> >>> >> >> > > possible
> >>> >> >> > to
> >>> >> >> > > match manual tasks speed but Internet Explorer is not
> optimized
> >>> >> >> > > at
> >>> >> >> > > all,
> >>> >> >> > > that's the point.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > > That TaskSpeed is performing truly common operation like
> remove,
> >>> >> >> > > append,
> >>> >> >> > > prepend, before, after, creation, etc ... and results against
> >>> >> >> > > other
> >>> >> >> > > libraries ( except for Prototype ) are clear in my blog post:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> >
> >>> >> >> > > >
> http://webreflection.blogspot.com/2009/04/taskspeed-dom-vs-libraries....
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > > Here a summary of Internet Explorer results:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > > Internet Explorer 6
> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------
> >>> >> >> > > library       | ms
> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------
> >>> >> >> > > DOM             *3966*
> >>> >> >> > > Dojo 1.2.3      22750
> >>> >> >> > > plugd-a (Dojo)  24189
> >>> >> >> > > Dojo 1.3.0      24249
> >>> >> >> > > jQuery 1.3.2    44314
> >>> >> >> > > MooTools 1.2.1  69346
> >>> >> >> > > jQuery 1.2.6    *104407*
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > > Internet Explorer 7
> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------
> >>> >> >> > > library       | ms
> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------
> >>> >> >> > > DOM             *612*
> >>> >> >> > > Dojo 1.2.3      3641
> >>> >> >> > > plugd-a (Dojo)  3748
> >>> >> >> > > Dojo 1.3.0      3861
> >>> >> >> > > jQuery 1.3.2    5031
> >>> >> >> > > MooTools 1.2.1  7658
> >>> >> >> > > jQuery 1.2.6    *10468*
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > > Internet Explorer 8
> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------
> >>> >> >> > > library       | ms
> >>> >> >> > > ------------------------
> >>> >> >> > > DOM             *499*
> >>> >> >> > > Dojo 1.3.0      2327
> >>> >> >> > > plugd-a (Dojo)  2455
> >>> >> >> > > Dojo 1.2.3      2922
> >>> >> >> > > jQuery 1.3.2    3170
> >>> >> >> > > MooTools 1.2.1  5876
> >>> >> >> > > jQuery 1.2.6    *7049*
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Gilles <[email protected]>
> >>> >> >> > > wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> > > > It would be good to see DOM speed results compare to other
> >>> >> >> > > > libraries
> >>> >> >> > > > and see which libraries comes the closest to it. But I
> would
> >>> >> >> > > > never
> >>> >> >> > > > expect any library to match it on all tests. But then again
> >>> >> >> > > > that
> >>> >> >> > > > TaskSpeed test only take into consideration few basics
> tests
> >>> >> >> > > > and
> >>> >> >> > > > not
> >>> >> >> > > > the overall performance of akll the functionalities within
> a
> >>> >> >> > > > library.
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> >
>
> >
>

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