How many times did you run your tests? Are these averages?

Also, did you try the tests on a non-Windows XP or Vista machine to
get more accurate results? (At least for Firefox and Opera).

I don't doubt that pure DOM manipulation is going to be faster, but
it's certainly surprising to see how much faster it is than any
library.

-- dz



On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:03 AM, Gilles <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I understand better your point, but I think to an extend people use
> libraries for left side of the equation like you said, which is
> probably why library developers seems to concentrate more on that.
> Also I think JQuery is on the right track as the latest releases were
> about improving performance rather than adding some other cool stuff
> to it. Frankly I think it got enough cool stuff already, but I am
> looking forward to the require() addition tho.
>
> The thing is tho, if a library doesn't support the cool stuff it will
> be seen as not up to date with the competition and it will lose some
> of its popularity. And most people who use those libraries are not
> always that worried about the performance side of things, often it is
> more developer that tend to worry about that and frankly by my work
> experience I can say even in professional environment there isn't
> enough of them that actually care. You still have tonnes of companies
> doing web application that will not behave well outside IE, no
> validation, no multibrowser support, no javascript off support
> etc....
>
> Personally I like to have my little benchmark and try to improve speed
> and all (mostly in php still, in javascript I still got a lot to
> learn, too often wrong :p)
>
> Hopefully things will get better in the future now that IE8 is out
> (also the number of current IE6 users still alarming), it's still not
> perfect of course, but the few things I tried on it so far behave more
> like they are suppose to.
>
> Wouldn't be nice when you can just code thing the way they should and
> they would work everywhere. Imagine the footprint of everything
> without all the lines for IE and other weird borsers lol
>
>
>
> On Apr 2, 12:32 pm, Andrea Giammarchi <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> performances improvements and 44 seconds rather than 3 do not make sense,
>> imho.
>>
>> What I am saying is that we, as libraries developers, just put layers to
>> make IE behaves like every other cool browser.
>> This layer at the same time is slowing down IE speed, which has already the
>> worse JS engine ever, compared to others.
>>
>> So, the equation is simple: cool stuff : IE = performances : bad
>>
>> I am sure a lot of code is focused just on the left part of the equation
>> while should be nice, in my opinion, to consider more the right side when it
>> is possible.
>>
>> Better?
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Gilles <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Déjá vus are actually well explained in the latest New Scientist, very
>> > cool stuff :)
>>
>> > I think you might want to highlight JQuery 1.3.2 and DOM instead of
>> > JQuery 1.2.6 tho as the performanace improved dramatically since then.
>>
>> > But I just don't get what you are saying by saying that libraries (not
>> > talking about JQuery only, cos I am only a user) are not optimized for
>> > IE. Any libraries will have a huge amount of lines that are dedicated
>> > to IE, cos IE just can't use standards properly. Unless of course as
>> > usual I don't get it cos the translation doesn't go well lol
>>
>> > If it wasn't for IE the number of check in libraries would be smaller
>> > and libraries would probably be faster lol
>>
>> > On Apr 2, 11:05 am, Andrea Giammarchi <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> > > dejavou ... I am not blaming any library and obviously it is not possible
>> > to
>> > > match manual tasks speed but Internet Explorer is not optimized at all,
>> > > that's the point.
>>
>> > > That TaskSpeed is performing truly common operation like remove, append,
>> > > prepend, before, after, creation, etc ... and results against other
>> > > libraries ( except for Prototype ) are clear in my blog post:
>> >http://webreflection.blogspot.com/2009/04/taskspeed-dom-vs-libraries....
>>
>> > > Here a summary of Internet Explorer results:
>>
>> > > Internet Explorer 6
>> > > ------------------------
>> > > library       | ms
>> > > ------------------------
>> > > DOM             *3966*
>> > > Dojo 1.2.3      22750
>> > > plugd-a (Dojo)  24189
>> > > Dojo 1.3.0      24249
>> > > jQuery 1.3.2    44314
>> > > MooTools 1.2.1  69346
>> > > jQuery 1.2.6    *104407*
>>
>> > > Internet Explorer 7
>> > > ------------------------
>> > > library       | ms
>> > > ------------------------
>> > > DOM             *612*
>> > > Dojo 1.2.3      3641
>> > > plugd-a (Dojo)  3748
>> > > Dojo 1.3.0      3861
>> > > jQuery 1.3.2    5031
>> > > MooTools 1.2.1  7658
>> > > jQuery 1.2.6    *10468*
>>
>> > > Internet Explorer 8
>> > > ------------------------
>> > > library       | ms
>> > > ------------------------
>> > > DOM             *499*
>> > > Dojo 1.3.0      2327
>> > > plugd-a (Dojo)  2455
>> > > Dojo 1.2.3      2922
>> > > jQuery 1.3.2    3170
>> > > MooTools 1.2.1  5876
>> > > jQuery 1.2.6    *7049*
>>
>> > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Gilles <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > > > It would be good to see DOM speed results compare to other libraries
>> > > > and see which libraries comes the closest to it. But I would never
>> > > > expect any library to match it on all tests. But then again that
>> > > > TaskSpeed test only take into consideration few basics tests and not
>> > > > the overall performance of akll the functionalities within a library.
> >
>

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