Michael,
I'm a bit biased, since I'm a Sun employee, but I can't resist...
Java is by no means closed, and Sun does not control it. It is an industry-wide effort. Every change to Java goes through a relatively light-weight process called the JCP and starts with a Java Specification Request (JSR). Just look at any major JSR on http://jcp.org/ and see how many companies and even individual experts collaborate on all new Java technologies. For example, JSP has over 30 different companies and experts collaborating. Also, with the Executive Committee (http://jcp.org/en/participation/committee) being chaired by many companies, Sun cannot make a change to Java without the acceptance of the rest of the industry.
Don't think that's open enough? Well I have good news for you. The JCP process itself can be (and has been) changed by the community is well. In fact, we're up to Java Community Process 2.6 now, with rave reviews. How's that for open? I think Sun has been a very fair shepard of Java.
Looking at .net, anyone who uses it seriously quickly realizes it's tied to Windows and tied to Microsoft. There are few (if any) .net applications that will work in a non-Microsoft environment, which means that Microsoft effectively dictates it. Their 'open' process is little more than Marketing/PR.
As for your argument about bloat, last I checked, the development kit for Mono on Linux is 49 MB, compared to the JDK's relatively lean and mean 33 MB. Considering .net is brand new and Java has been around since 1995, that's quite impressive in my book. And if past performance (e.g. Windows, MS-Office) is any indicator of the future behavior, I think we can predict what will happen to .net over time.
Of course you're missing the biggest plus for Java, and that is that it runs on every operating system, and that Java is committed to cross-platform compatibility. Java puts the choice in your hands. No lock-ins. You have the freedom to choose your hardware, OS, server, software, development tools, and just about everything else.
--- Mark Roth, Staff Engineer, Java Software JSP 2.0 / 2.1 Specification Lead Java Enterprise Community Leader http://community.java.net/java-enterprise Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Michael Rozlog wrote:
Actually, Java is not open. I don't mean to start a major fight, but the admission that Java is owned by Sun and the JCP is still mostly controlled by Sun and it has never been given to any standards committee in actuality makes it fairly closed. However, on the hand, Microsoft has submitted the .NET platform to ECMA standard body and it has a rival / open source competitor called Mono (owned by Novell) but still open http://www.mono-project.com/about/mono-roadmap.html. So from strictly a standards point of view .NET is technically more open then Java. By the by, isn't the fact that Sun sued Microsoft because it made a different version of Java, which to this day Microsoft has not sued the Mono project for porting the .NET platform to Linux also sort of a wake up call?
Now as far as making changes to the frameworks in question, I have no doubt that the JCP is more open to the community then currently is available from Microsoft. However, Microsoft makes a great point, by stating that by them controlling the framework it will not have the bloat like Java, but we will have to wait and see... because as they add more features the .NET platform it will expand and may very well become bloated, just like Java is today.
Mike
=========================================================================== To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For digest: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "set JSP-INTEREST DIGEST".
Some relevant archives, FAQs and Forums on JSPs can be found at:
http://java.sun.com/products/jsp http://archives.java.sun.com/jsp-interest.html http://forums.java.sun.com http://www.jspinsider.com
