Sorry Timo, I fear my expansion of the topic from your focused "Flex license" to a more general Rich Clients has propogated and I apologize again for the offense.
On the other hand this is part of what I wanted to find out, so thanks Steven. Michael Oliver CTO Alarius Systems LLC 6800 E. Lake Mead Blvd, #1096 Las Vegas, NV 89156 Phone:(702)866-9034 Cell:(518)378-6154 Fax:(702)974-0341 -----Original Message----- From: Steven Elliott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:24 PM To: jug-discussion@tucson-jug.org Subject: Re: [jug-discussion] Java Rich Clients with Flex 2.0? IMHO comparing the merits of Flex and Laszlo are relevant. They work in the same space to solve the same problem with the same technology. On the otherhand, while AJAX(J)(F) solutions work in the same space they require a different mix of technology including a significantly different view technology; Flash requires the proprietary Flash player (VM) while AJAX uses the browser's own script engine. So the comparison between Flex/Laszlo and AJAX is not quite apples to apples; more a discussion about fruit in general. One consideration at this level of generalization is if you already have a web application which platform is easier to integrate, Flex/Laszlo or AJAX. In my experience it has always been easier to integrate AJAX and AJAX is far less intrusive and creates less dependencies than Flex/Laszlo. If you are starting at ground zero then the discussion may be different but in my experience it would still depend on exactly what you were doing. The curve for AJAX can be low and will depend on your expectations or what you are willing to trade off. The curve will be higher as your expectations/specifications become more sophisticated not only because your Javascript skills will need to improve but also because you will need to master DOM and CSS to fully realize your interface. Use of Open Source Libraries like Dojo or Scriptaculous can help provide GUI widgets ranging from functional to just fun (BTW OpenLaszlo now ships with Dojo and can output components directly to DHTML). The skillset for Flex/Laszlo is not unlike that for mastering Swing/SWT. To make the most of it especially from an integration standpoint you need to know Java and be able to learn the components provided for by the Flex/Laszlo platform. Curiously though, to get the most from the client side you are going to need ActionScript which is ECMA-262 aka Javascript. In otherwords to some extent you are going to learn Javascript to get the most from either technology. So what does the matrix look like? In terms of reusable components Flex/Laszlo are ahead of AJAX although libraries like Dojo and Scriptaculous not to mention the whole OO revolution in Javascript (GWT and Yahoo) is quickly closing this gap. One thing to consider it that Flex is not open source so if you find a bug or need customization your options are limited. This is why I prefer Laszlo. For those that need multimedia Flash is a great client for streaming media and vector animation. BUT Flex/Laszlo does not include a streaming media server and the Flash Media Server is an expensive addition. You don't need FMS for streaming media to the client but Adobe/Macromedia likes you to think you do. What's more the .flv files (Flash audio/video) are a proprietary format. IMO you can get the same functionality with better quality using the Apple QuickTime Streaming Server or its open source equivalent Darwin Streaming Server (I also think you will see more about QT server strategy from Apple when it comes out with its home media center in January). I will say that if you have tried programming with JMF, Flex/Laszlo appear to be a no brainer. In almost all cases there is an alternative in AJAX for each one of the technologies provided by Flex/Flash, except one; server-to-client communication. Server-to-client communication is the ability for the server to initiate communication to the client. In reality it works by having an open port between the Flash client and Flex server which can be used by either party to send and receive asynchronously. A web browser on the other hand uses HTTP which is a request-receive protocol and once the information has been received the line of communication is closed. Why is asynchronous server-to-client protocol so important. Because it is the basis for collaborative environments where the server can provide a shared environment to multiple remote clients (i.e. Chat, live online learning environments, product demonstrations, JUG meetings...;) where all clients can participate equally. At this time AJAX uses HTTP 1.0 persistent connections and/or polling schemes informally known as Comet but nothing as robust as the RTMP/AMF protocol found in Flash. Providing collaborative environments from Flex is possible but to get all the bells and whistles at the level of comfort you are accustomed to if you are a Flex client you will purchase a Breeze license (mucho $$). I do not deny that Flex is powerful platform and if you are going to build collaborative environments it is even more compelling. One final note is both AJAX and Flex ability to do mashups or access remote APIs via XML-RPC and REST. If you were going to build a webapp which needed a Google map or YouTube video you should be able to do it in both (although I haven't tried a Google map in Flash). This is the next frontier. my $0.02 Steven Remote APIs: http://www.programmableweb.com/ Flex Beta 2.0 vs. Laszlo : http://stimpson.flashvacuum.net/mt/archives/2005/08/openlaszlo_vs_f.html http://www.laszlosystems.com/developers/community/forums/showthread.php?thre adid=5566 Some of the Flex/Laszlo are old but nothing recent has been written. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
