On Mon, Jan 07, 2008 at 02:35:14PM -0800, DJA wrote: > John Oliver wrote: > >On Sun, Jan 06, 2008 at 05:06:50PM -0800, Andrew Lentvorski wrote: > >>Tracy R Reed wrote: > >> > >>>So we all pay. > >>How about kids? I think that children's tickets should be 10 times the > >>price of an adult. I find the number of screaming children on flights > >>far more repulsive than even the most morbidly obese individual. > >> > >>How about pregnant women? They're going to be running to the bathroom > >>continuously and inconveniencing everybody on the row they have to get > >>out of and are far more likely to throw up. > >> > >>How about that? Now do you understand why what you are proposing is > >>wrong on a philosophical level? > > > >What is wrong with either of those scenarios? > > Because, at the inevitable extreme of accepting this kind of thinking, > profit determines who lives and who dies.
> When material wealth is the only incentive to do what's right and > humane, it's called greed and avarice. You're confusing "material wealth" with the method with which we allocate scarce goods. Airplane seats, food, and just about everything else we use exist in less of a quantity than that which would meet all demand, and so some means must exist to decide who gets what. What means would you choose to use other than money? "Need"? Who determines "need"? What happens when someone else who has been judged to be "needier" than you gets the last heart operation, and you're left out in the cold? At least I can earn and save money. I cannot become "needier" by any method which could affect the decision, as everyone else would employ the same method to raise their own priority. Unfortunately, human beings are inherently "greedy". That is what drives competition, and competition is how we have evolved, and how our society has evolved. If there was no greed, no desire to better ourselves above our fellow human beings, we would all still be in small agricultural communities. I do not believe that would be such a bad thing, but that isn't the real world. > >It may not "be fair" that someone must face an adverse consequence for > >either their choices or the results of cosmic coin flip. But how is it > >any more fair to subject everyone else to a nuisance just because the > >source of the nuisance "can't help it"? > > You've accused the wrong object of being a nuisance. The person next to > you is not the problem - the airplane is the problem. No, it isn't. The airplane is what it is. I have paid a certain price to sit in a certain seat. If that seat is "too small" for you, that has nothing to do with me. It isn't "too small" for me. You have paid for your seat, and must only use that amount of space you have paid for. You don't get to intrude upon the space I've paid for just because "you can't help it". I'm not "blaming" you. The fact that you must pay for two seats isn't a punishment... it's an accurate refelection upon your increased demand for limited seating space. > >Put another way... this is a perfect example of letting the free market > >decide. Airline A charges more for kids, fat people, pregnant women, > >etc. They lose the business of those with kids or who are "too heavy", > >but gain the business of those who do not want to deal with kids or > >tight seating. Airline B may decide to cash in on all of those > >underserved travellers, and offer one price for everyone. Which will > >win? Maybe both. Maybe one of those airlines will not succeed, because > >the market segment they've chosen to pursue is not profitable. > > You assume competition always survives. We've seen that it seldom does > in industries with a small number of big players. Only because they use their size to stifle competition. That is obviously *not* a problem with "competition", but the lack of it. I find it puzzling that someone would examine such a scenario, caused by too little competition, and then determine that the correct course of action is to further stifle competition. -- *********************************************************************** * John Oliver http://www.john-oliver.net/ * * * *********************************************************************** -- [email protected] http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
