begin quoting Paul G. Allen as of Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 01:16:02PM -0700: > SJS wrote: > > > >When I posted a message to the mailing list, I got an unsolicited > >request to "click on a link". So far as I'm concerned, that counts > >as spam (even though it fails the technical requirement), so I'm not > >about to spin up a browser just so I can follow a link. > > A mailing list should never have such a thing.
Correct. But some reader of our mailing list *did* -- I got a request to click on a link to auto-whitelist a message I had sent _to_ the list. Or it's a spammer trying to validate an email address. How can I tell? > >I see a different mentality -- "You should be obligated to do my work > >for me so I don't have to bother." > > Which to me is part of taking responsibility (or rather, not taking it). What, doing my work for me, or not doing my work for me? :) > >Then you have the attitude of a spammer. After all, you're trying to > >save yourself some effort on your part by offloading effort to someone > >else. > > I put forth more effort than most people I know. I report serious > offenders and have in the past had accounts disabled (I'm sure some of > the account owners just got more accounts at other ISPs, etc., but at > least I made an effort to do something beyond bitching about spam.) It's a warm fuzzy feeling to get back a "Thanks, we closed that account." message. > I use my own mail servers. I use SPF, check HELO, disallow pipelining, > use greylists, check RBLs, block IP addresses and blocks of addresses, > and occasionally report spammers. On occasion I'll even make an effort > to track them down as best I can (only the repeat offenders that make a > significant impact on me and/or my system(s)). So, yes, I am offloading > some work to someone else on occasion. Why should I do all the work all > the time? As I said before, we should all do something (and this doesn't > just apply to spam). Yes, but doing *something* /just/ to be doing something isn't a very good solution. Pick a something that makes things BETTER, rather than worse. Part of the problem is that we're using a SIMPLE mail transport protocol. Maybe we need a smarter protocol. I'm not sure we can do that without throwing away some of the nice things about SMTP, however. > >That's the problem with the "what's so damned hard" arguments -- > >especially when it comes to spam. What's so damned hard about clicking > >on "delete" when you're not interested in what's being sold? > > I usually click "Junk", and hope the system learns a little something in > the process. I also click delete. The other things allow my fingers to > rest a little from clicking "Junk" and delete so often. Ayup. But, if you save yourself that work, you want to offload it to someone else, then they can rightfully object, as that's only fair as YOU object to spammers making you click on "Junk" and "Delete". Now, if you want to think of yourself as a specialized mailing list, treat it like that. Have people send a SUBSCRIBE message to you and/or put up a webpage, so that you can have this opt-in behavior. > >The answer is the same in both cases: you're using the computer to save > >YOU effort at MY expense. > > If setup properly, the sender would have no expense (given that I > already have their e-mail address). They would be added to the white > list before they sent me an e-mail. If they've never e-mailed me before, > /then/ they'd have to confirm the e-mail. If they don't want to, then > that's fine by me. So when a spammer puts himself on your whitelist, that's fine too? 'Cuz that's what will happen if this approach becomes widespread -- you bounce a reply-to-this-to-get-on-the-whitelist message back, and it's replied to automatically, and bingo, the spammer is in, and non-spammers get to deal with MORE junkmail. And when you get an automated reply that you need to follow a link to a webpage to okay your automated reply to an email from someone who sent you an email... will you do it? > >If there were a way that I could keep my posts to a mailing list from > >going to someone who's going to send me an automated request, I'd do it. > >Just because I'm a jerk that way. > > That would be nice. I also hate auto responders on mailing lists (I hate > them anyway, but more so when I see them on a mailing list.) Heh. And that's where this thread started, innit? -- If you paint over the labels and rearrange the pieces, is there a difference? Stewart Stremler -- KPLUG-List@kernel-panic.org http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
