For me there are two sides, the vision of a united Europe, people sharing prosperity and living in harmony which I support
And then there is the current reality, a creeping centre left coup by the original Schengen countries to control everything which has blown up in their face and caused the rise of the far right! If they had left things alone as they were a few years ago everything would be alright but they have run out of serious things to reform and now are looking at things like a euro army and closer integration and the few idiotic laws we all get to hear about. In a few years these govts will be cleared out and the inevitable period of the right will come in and focus more on money for the rich less on the meddling and control of everyone's lives. Hence not voting out now to regret it in 3 years time! -----Original Message----- From: Leedslist [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Naef Sent: 08 June 2016 12:27 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [LU] NONLU: EU > I'm voting out for reasons of democracy. The commission is the > executive and is unelected. Look at what they did to Greece, the > Greeks voted overwhelmingly to end the austerity imposed upon them and were ignored. > Technocrat governments have been installed in failing eu economies > like Italy. The Greeks Voted in a government that accepted the EU terms, albeit unhappily, apart from the extremists no political party in Greece wanted to Leave the EU. Italy voted for their government - technocrat president sure but again agreed by a majority of their parliament. Nothing to do with EU as regards democratic control, the 4 parts of the EU government; Commission - unelected, but 1 representative from each country, proposed by the government. proposes laws Parliament - voted in by us, votes on almost all laws Council - PMs or senior Politicians, agree general direction of EU and sorts out political issues (like the UK opt outs.) Council of Justice - unelected, but contains judges from each country, tries to ensure everyone follows the rules. In the 37 years I've been voting in UK and local elections only once has the person I voted for been elected to a position, I bitterly complain about our ridiculous voting system, but we lost that referendum, so that's fair enough. It's true are on the losing side more often than others in the parliament (72 times out of about 2550 votes) , particularly recently, but that's largely because the majority of UK MEPS are anti-Europe. > It seems to me that the eu in general and specifically the Eurozone works only in the interests of Germany. I think the biggest beneficiaries have been the poorer countries, eastern Europe especially, who came out of communism and have been kept on a fairly even keel and, Poland for example is, I believe, the fastest growing economy in Europe and didn't go into recession after the Banking crisis like we did. Can you imagine what would have happened if the ex-communist countries had fallen apart. For me that's possibly the biggest plus of the EU, safety and security and no wars. Ireland, Greece and Spain, were overall dirt poor rural economies before they joined the EU, they have all suffered from the 2008 Banking crisis, in some ways exacerbated by the leniency of the EU rules on debt, BUT their GDP and economies are still far larger than before they joined. > Was I happy at being inundated with Eastern Europeans changing the culture and landscape of my hometown? No. I don't remember being >consulted about that. Immigrants generally pay tax and contribute, maybe they change our "culture" but I'm not sure that's a bad thing myself. You state you are an Englishman, yet live and contribute to the Oz economy, is that a bad thing therefore? Hundreds of thousands of Uk residents live in Europe, often retirees, with the attached pressure on the host countries health systems. > I don't feel that the economic consequences will be anywhere near as >dire as Cameron makes out. They can't be as bad as 2008, and we survived that. We are still living in the effects of the 2008 crisis, so can we afford another shock? I agree Cameron and Osbourne have been over egging the pudding, but the vast majority of independent economists around the world have come out and said it will have a negative effect on our economy overall. Sure the EU isn't perfect, any organisation of 28 separate countries will always struggle and there is waste, but we pay about 1% of our GDP in each year and the benefits we accrue in influence, trade and security are well worth that. _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] MARCHING ON TOGETHER _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email [email protected] MARCHING ON TOGETHER
