John Wow! nicely said and done. I like your point of veiw. Thank you for shairing with us. C.A.G.
----- Original Message ----- From: John Sasinowski <jesasinow...@gmail.com> To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:51:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: No CNC's required Here are a few thoughts on the subject. Materials: Over time the materials we work with, and the attitudes we have towards them, change. I used to think of veneers as a means to beautiful ornamentation, but mostly as a way to cheat and skimp on using good raw materials. In recent years, as the beautiful woods have become scarcer, veneering can be viewed as less a 'cheat' and more a way to conserve precious natural resources. I don't recall seeing laminated bamboo anything here in the USA while growing up, and now you find it in many places. At the other end of the spectrum, I may read about how to machine ivory in old woodworking texts but never expect to ever put that knowledge to use. For me, working with wood led to curiosity about machining metals (real mysterious stuff at first!) and now some of the 3D printing technologies. Understanding one set of materials can lead to insights and new perspectives in others.Machining technology: Tool technology broadened from hand tools, to machines that spin cutters and workpieces, to computer controlled motion of each. Knowledge of the earlier technologies is valuable when working with the later ones, and the later developments do not obviate the need for the earlier tools. I may use a legacy mill, router table, and track guided circular saws, and I may have thoughts of building a CNC woodworking machine, but I still enjoy using hand planes and chisels. Like all tools, CNC can be used for good or ill. I personally am not usually impressed by attempts to mimic hand carving with a CNC router. On the other hand, CNC can expand one's creative expression to create less rectilinear shapes with good control. In metal working, for example, manual milling of smooth curves that aren't circular segments is very difficult - extend shapes to require 4- or 5- axis motion of a cutter, and you have a challenging problem on your hands if you're going to do that manually. New technology can provide alternate ways to accomplish existing tasks. If I want to flatten a board, I can: use hand planes; run it through my jointer/planer; put a table in the ornamental mill and flatten it with a bottom-cutting bit. If I had a CNC router, I could use that, too. There isn't an obviously universally correct choice. As Tim mentioned, the 3D printers are an interesting new technology. I don't know that I want to try to print something that tries to look like wood. Rather, it's another set of materials and machining options that should further expand what one can build. A 3D printer can be used to produce an actual desired object. Its power also lies in the ability to truly visualize multiple variations on a design in the real-world - you can pick them up, move them around, manipulate them, see them in different lighting, etc. Want to experiment with proportion? Would you rather look at a few drawings or some physical models of your new creation? Couple 3D scanning with 3D printing, and you have not just a 3D copy machine or replicator, but the ability to say, "I like the shape of this object, but I want to make a few edits and change it a bit to make it better fit my needs/aesthetics/desires."New technologies are best viewed in concert with all that went before, rather than as fully supplanting them. I can certainly envision designing a project in CAD software, printing a few scale models on a 3D printer until I get it right, printing a few jig components, machining some metal components and jig elements on my CNC mill, running lumber through my wood shop tools, and fine tuning joinery with hand tools - maybe even hand carving some decorative details if I develop those skills. Of course, the one thing I need more of is time to further explore all of this... :-) OK, back to my real job for a bit... - John On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Tim Krause <artmarb...@comcast.net> wrote: Hi Roger, Intriguing question. Well, I do see a small trend to makerbot type machines that instead of removing material, they are adding materials to make shapes. One could argue with a quality faux wood finish, wood could be replaced. Before you laugh, look at all the wood substitutes already on the market in siding, decking and extruded pvc molding. This is crystal ball thinking :-) -Tim ----- Original Message ----- From:Roger H Phebey To:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 1:37 PM Subject: RE: No CNC's required Hi Curt In one way I guess you are right that the CNC machine takes away the skill and as you rightly point out the same applied when the router replace the moulding plan. However to my mind CNC brings along a different set of skills and they are real skills, so I therefore think you are wrong. The question we should now be asking is what machine or technology will supersede CNC? Spooky when you think about it, back in 1974/5 when I started selling micro-processor chips I did not have the vision to see where they would go and now I have no idea what will replace CNC, any ideas? Regards Roger From:legacy-ornamental-mills+bncbcolpp7wtyibbr5fy2cakgqe5uxx...@googlegroups.com [mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills+bncbcolpp7wtyibbr5fy2cakgqe5uxx...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of curt george Sent: 31 October 2012 21:06 To:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: No CNC's required Hello Everyone. I know ,(by the way I agree with you Gary.) that there is always two sides to every story, The CNC machines in my view of it,Takes away the skill and craftsmanship of the hole woodworking concept. Yes I know that a craftsman of old, could have said that same thing about using a router to turn wood... There is no argument that a computer controlled machine can do things that no human (or very few) could ever do by hand. Perhaps its just me ,stuck in my own mind set,(or I'm just to cheap to try to keep up with the Big Boys and there Toys.) ;-) As a funny side note, two days after I bought my Legacy, I was showing off the info. about the machine, and one of the people who I work with, said that it was ashamed that I bought it. His statements shook me to the core, I asked why? Its a brand new machine,and look what it can do, I said. He told me ,"that CNC was the wave of the future"... DARN-it ! He was right! and Now Even Legacy has changed there own view about making and selling there own woodworking equipment. ;-( MOM always said, You do one thing at a time, you do it the best that you can, then you move on. I still have not caught up with my own potential, and there still is lots of stuff that I need to learn, before I jump ship on that topic. So I guess that's where I stand on this topic Now. Woops! kids are at the door! Happy Halloween everyone. (((Trick or Treat! ))) ;-) . Have a good night. C.A.G. ----- Original Message ----- From:Gary Moshofsky To:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 12:58 PM Subject: RE: No CNC's required Once we all get automatic wood manufacturing machines iI think that much of what has drawn us to doing woodworking as a hobby will be gone. From:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com [mailto:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bulkeley Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:52 PM To:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: No CNC's required yes it brings a smile to me now i guess its spend lots of money with us and get cnc because you no longer need a manual machine show just how far legacy has come all right Bill B ----- Original Message ----- From:Tim Krause To:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 1:12 PM Subject: Re: No CNC's required I know where it's from and put your hearing aids in, it does has everything to do with cnc's! Do I need to add subtitles? It is completely out of context :-). -Tim ----- Original Message ----- From:curt george To:legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 5:07 PM Subject: Re: No CNC's required Tim that is from the contour following video 1996 Wood Chuck searies. I have to put back in my hearing aids to hear what he said. but that in no way has anything to do with the CNC units. C.A.G. ----- Original Message ----- From:Tim Krause To:Legacy-Ornamental-Mills@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 10:04 PM Subject: No CNC's required Hello All, I hate to get anyone's dander up at Legacy, but I was looking through some older training videos and this sound bite really made me chuckles knowing how far Legacy has come. It's a hidden link on youtube so please do not distribute it. See if it makes you chuckle as I did. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COGdRlPRANg -Tim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
