Thanks Joe.
As a pipefitter, Im get sticker shock a lot when I see how much things cost
after I install them. I dont deal with the billing only the install. A part
that should be a few bucks,cost $100.00...
buisness expences and pricing is something very new to me. when I see
something, I figure out how to make it, and the cost it will take ME to do it.
things like your buisness breakdown are not normaly in my thinking. I still
have a lot to learn.
My kids role there eyes everytime when I say, I still dont know what I want to
do, When I grow up! ;-) Im learning and growing everyday, someday I will be
there. ;-)
As far as the Barley twisted telaphone pole goes, That a Dream that will
happen, I just have to figure out a few details, like, how to make a machine
that will turn a 20' pole and fit it into a one car garage. ;-P
And the worst part is, my wife cant know anything about it...
There is still a lot more learning/work to do, for now.
Have a great day. And thanks.
C.A.G.
----- Original Message -----
From: joe biunno <finun...@aol.com>
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Cc: nokiia...@msn.com
Sent: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 05:32:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Legacy Artisan 72 for Sale in Southern California asking 18000
curtis,
please allow me some comments to your post...the $10.00 to $18.00 you
mentioned i'll assume refers to material cost...allowing $15.00 now brings the
labor cost down to $40.00...now, any decent woodworker should make at least
$20.00 per hour...throw in vacations, holidays, FICA matching costs,workmen's
comp., etc.,etc. and the per hour cost is even greater...let's say $25.00...now
you have $15.00 to cover a business's rent,
electric,phone,maintenance,etc....and here's a shock- a business is there to
actually make a PROFIT!...so actually, that $55.00 was/is a very good deal for
the customer...but a very bad price to an ongoing woodworking shop...now if you
are the person making that post for $55.00(in a one person business), and you
are working out of your garage, the equation changes...there is no rent per
say, electric is minimal since it is already part of the house expenses,
vacations and holidays?-HA!,perhaps it is a cash transaction so we eliminate
uncle sam from the process and now that $55.00 seems like not too bad a price
to charge...but to the woodworker who has a commercial shop, with employees, it
is a death sentence...so it might be easy money to the one man shop, but
certainly not to a business with employees...i only make these comments because
if you are an independent woodworker trying to make a living(mortgage,car
payments,food, raising kids,etc.), it is very difficult out there...and you are
correct in saying that you just have to figure out what everyone wants and sell
it to them, but there are most likely a good number of people doing the same
thing, and thus throwing a fair price structure out the window...just a bit of
work experience i have been experiencing over the past several years...take
care and be well...and would love to see that twisted telephone pole!...joe
biunno
On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 7:21:42 PM UTC-5, Curtis wrote:
Hello Everyone.
Begat your comments on fluted columns is a good one,Greek and Roman designs are
and have always been big in the building element. Which brings me to offer an
idea that I was looking into a while back. In My area We have a lot of
historical homes as well as buisness, that all need repairs and details made
to fit there old buildings, to bring them back to original look, Old details
like spirals as well as fluted columns, on both the inside as well as outside
decor are needed to keep the buildings standings up to par. and not all the
repairs are hard one to make.
When I was up north, I talked to a man who was replacing some old fence posts.
What he had was a 4x4x8 wood post with a long tappered cut on the top that made
it look like a large diamond. I told him he did a nice job, and asked him if he
made that on a table saw or a jig saw? He told me NO, he had to pay $55.00 per
post to match the original ones.(local codes...) I thanked him and left.
Meanwhile I was thinking that this post could be made for something like
$10.00- $18.00 and with just a little work... it would have been easy money to
make.
Perhaps ??? a differant market is needed here? After all it is all supply and
demand right? YOU Just have to figure out what everyone wants. and then sell
it to them. :-) I know easer said than done. but I am looking at doing
something JUST like that in my future. Antiques and Resteration .
But my dream still remains to make a barley twisted telaphone pole, so I too
will have to look into making my self a Longer Legacy, Someday... ;-)
Have a good night .
C.A.G.
Hello Joe,
Yes, I now remember. I especially like the video you posted. Some time ago, I
bought everything I need to put together two 900s to make a TK Conversion that
should allow me to turn 11 inches diameter by 9 plus feet.. My problem has
been getting to it.
I would have thought there would be outdoor columns or even indoor columns. I
always thought that the large twist columns were a small market, but columns
with flutes.
Begat
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:29 PM, joe biunno <finu...@aol.com> wrote:
begat,
i picked up an 1800 from a guy in florida, back around august, i
believe...this legacy originally was intended to be set up with the cnc package
legacy was selling at that time...and i have all the drive
motors,brackets,computer interface,etc...basically all you would need to set up
the machine as a cnc that would have come from legacy...all brand new, never
used in the original packaging...not interested in setting up the cnc though as
my guys in the shop certainly are not able to learn the program skills needed
to run it...so it is carefully packed away for now...and since it was set up
for cnc, it did not have a typical legacy gear motor set up at the end of the
lead screw...small problem...but i wanted an extended machine anyway, so a
second hunt began...found a 1500 around the pittsburgh area...it had the gear
motor,z carriage,and other accessories, so i picked that piece up...really
wanted another 1800, but my lack of patience and budget restraints forced me to
go for the 1500...fast forward to today and i have successfully combined the
two, giving me 15 feet between centers...everything (machines, base,
rails,etc.) comes apart very easily and quickly for ease of transport(think
pickup with an 8ft bed would easily do the job)...another added bonus is i have
two carriages, both with the z axis so i can play with one for some kind of
whacky accessory or whatever i feel like...or sell it perhaps...also gave me
some extra railing,gear sets,head stock and tailstock ,etc,etc...the joining
process was done in such a way that nothing was modified or changed on either
machine...so i could put both machines back together, if i ever wanted to sell
the two individual machines...now just playing with modifications and
accessories for this piece and waiting for some twist work to come to the
shop...you got the extended answer because i have not much to do at this
time!...LOL!...any questions, best to ask now before i completely lose my
mind!...thanks...joe
On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 1:49:48 PM UTC-5, Begat wrote:
Joe,
Which Legacy models do you have?
Begat
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:08 PM, joe biunno <finu...@aol.com> wrote:
begat,
you are 100% correct...it seems american taste has shifted into a
"minimalist" mode...furniture having turnings and carvings are not in vogue and
that opens the doors for any decent woodworkers who have a table saw and band
saw to make functional,straight-line furniture...now, i am not knocking that
type of furniture because we also make it when asked...but it knocks down the
price point due to the increased competition and larger shops are suffering...i
know a few in my area that have either gone out or downsized quite a
bit...their overheads are just eating them alive and they can't meet the price
point that a one or two man shop can...very frustrating...i could even make an
educated prediction that there is a good chance i will never see a break-even
return on the money i spent to acquire, then modify, the two legacys i have...i
am glad i did it though because i always wanted one and i enjoy playing with
woodworking equipment/tools/machinery...
On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 5:51:16 PM UTC-5, Begat wrote:
Joe,
The bench, especially the legs, look great. I have also concluded that the
Legacy mills, whether cnc or ornamental, are really about spirals and twists.
And this is the problem--that's Victorian stuff and people want fairly plain
Arts and Crafts mostly.
Begat
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:11 PM, joe biunno <finu...@aol.com> wrote:
ok, seems you guys miss me and my insanity...update time...well, business
STINKS!...have not had an opportunity to take "elvis" out for a test run yet,
things are that bad...any straight fluting or reeding(on poles,legs or finials)
we might do, we do on our shaper using a "french" spindle and an indexing
head...excellent for straight and/or shaped pieces...the legacy could never do
this as fast as this method does the job...the legacy is used for twist
work...and so far not a single job has been presented to us...but the cnc
debate is interesting...just finished making a pair of benches that had a
custom designed leg(see attached photo) that i was able to send to a friend's
company that has a 10 spindle computerized CNC machine...we first carved a
model leg, he then scanned it, prepped the blanks and the machine took
over...automatic,computerized bit changes made his work none labor
intensive...of course there was a good amount of time in the scanning process
and then a lot of time cleaning the scan up and additional detailing that the
scanning missed...all done at a reasonable price that fit into our
budget...makes investing in CNC equipment very attractive but only if the work
is there to keep the machine going...and there lies the problem...from a
business standpoint, our shop currently does not have the work to justify the
purchase of a CNC...and to also consider the time in learning various code
programs and what not...now if i was 30 years old, my approach would be
different...to think i might have opportunities to use a CNC over the next
35-40 years, i think i would consider making the investment...but at this
juncture(59), i feel i cannot have an expensive piece of equipment sitting idle
in my shop...so i feel it best to stick to farming certain parts of a job out
to other shops that have the latest CNC machines and using my legacy for poles,
longer work and any twist work that i might have...and i do check in on this
group several times a day and am especially interested in the drill press
add-on that was posted not to long ago...this was something i had on a list of
accessories we planned to make for the big guy...except we were planning to set
up a quick release and attach method for different accessories like a drill
press and perhaps a mortiser and of course routers(one with the angled/rotary
table we made and a straight forward router)...all these would simply "click"
onto the Z axis platform...now some of these ideas are a bit out there and
perhaps not very prudent but since machinery and machinery modifications are
also a bit of a hobby to me, i enjoy spending some spare time and some spare
money(if i ever get any!) to achieve some of these goals...certainly will post
photos of anything worthwhile...any comments,good or bad, are certainly
welcome...joe biunno
On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:48:28 AM UTC-5, Va Oak wrote:
Hi Joe!
Yes, you Joe. - we have not heard from you in quite a while. Are you busy
building an even bigger LOM? ;-) How about some pics of what "The Beast of
The East" has produced - like perhaps some really long & fancy drapery rods?
Hope all is well with you & your company (and that you are still in
business/able to stay that way - given our current economic situation).
Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: joe biunno
Sent: Feb 25, 2014 8:40 AM
To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com
Cc: mwfo...@earthlink.net
Subject: Re: Legacy Artisan 72 for Sale in Southern California asking 18000
mac, are you referring to me?...joe biunno
On Monday, February 24, 2014 12:52:47 PM UTC-5, Va Oak wrote:
We have not heard from "Jumpin' Joe" in New York in quite a while - maybe, if
he sees the post, he'll travel to CA and bring it "back East". :-)
What about that, Joe?
Mac
-----Original Message-----
From: "storm...@snet.net"
Sent: Feb 24, 2014 12:42 PM
To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Legacy Artisan 72 for Sale in Southern California asking 18000
I would be interested if I wasn't at the other end of the country.
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