@ curtis...ahhhh!, another interesting point to comment on...how long it takes YOU (or me) to do a particular job...so let's say there is a particular job that takes everyone else 4 hours to complete...but because of your experience, talent, work ethic, etc., you can do the same job in two hours...you have two options...charge the customer for four hours of work, but that now puts you on the same competitive plane (in regards to price) as your competition...OR, charge for the two hours it took you, thus almost assuring you getting the job (as well as future jobs, perhaps)...but now you have upset the price structure of what the job should be...these are all hypotheticals, of course, and i am sure anyone could debate the reasoning behind some of these theories, but it is what i have been experiencing over the past several years...anyway, just sitting at my desk and chatting with you guys helps fill the day...and for the record, i only occasionally go into the shop to do any work because lately, i need the guys(total of 4-5) to get their 40 hours-a-week in so they go home with a full pay check...thus the time to respond to the legacy site...joe
On Thursday, February 27, 2014 6:31:38 AM UTC-5, Curtis wrote: > > Thanks Joe. > As a pipefitter, Im get sticker shock a lot when I see how much things > cost after I install them. I dont deal with the billing only the install. > A part that should be a few bucks,cost $100.00... > buisness expences and pricing is something very new to me. when I see > something, I figure out how to make it, and the cost it will take ME to do > it. things like your buisness breakdown are not normaly in my thinking. I > still have a lot to learn. > My kids role there eyes everytime when I say, I still dont know what I > want to do, When I grow up! ;-) Im learning and growing everyday, someday I > will be there. ;-) > As far as the Barley twisted telaphone pole goes, That a Dream that will > happen, I just have to figure out a few details, like, how to make a > machine that will turn a 20' pole and fit it into a one car garage. ;-P > And the worst part is, my wife cant know anything about it... > There is still a lot more learning/work to do, for now. > > Have a great day. And thanks. > C.A.G. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: joe biunno <finu...@aol.com <javascript:>> > To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > Cc: noki...@msn.com <javascript:> > Sent: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 05:32:25 -0500 (EST) > Subject: Re: Legacy Artisan 72 for Sale in Southern California asking 18000 > > curtis, > please allow me some comments to your post...the $10.00 to > $18.00 you mentioned i'll assume refers to material cost...allowing $15.00 > now brings the labor cost down to $40.00...now, any decent woodworker > should make at least $20.00 per hour...throw in vacations, holidays, FICA > matching costs,workmen's comp., etc.,etc. and the per hour cost is even > greater...let's say $25.00...now you have $15.00 to cover a business's > rent, electric,phone,maintenance,etc....and here's a shock- a business is > there to actually make a PROFIT!...so actually, that $55.00 was/is a very > good deal for the customer...but a very bad price to an ongoing woodworking > shop...now if you are the person making that post for $55.00(in a one > person business), and you are working out of your garage, the equation > changes...there is no rent per say, electric is minimal since it is already > part of the house expenses, vacations and holidays?-HA!,perhaps it is a > cash transaction so we eliminate uncle sam from the process and now that > $55.00 seems like not too bad a price to charge...but to the woodworker who > has a commercial shop, with employees, it is a death sentence...so it might > be easy money to the one man shop, but certainly not to a business with > employees...i only make these comments because if you are an independent > woodworker trying to make a living(mortgage,car payments,food, raising > kids,etc.), it is very difficult out there...and you are correct in saying > that you just have to figure out what everyone wants and sell it to them, > but there are most likely a good number of people doing the same thing, and > thus throwing a fair price structure out the window...just a bit of work > experience i have been experiencing over the past several years...take care > and be well...and would love to see that twisted telephone pole!...joe > biunno > > On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 7:21:42 PM UTC-5, Curtis wrote: >> >> Hello Everyone. >> Begat your comments on fluted columns is a good one,Greek and Roman >> designs are and have always been big in the building element. Which brings >> me to offer an idea that I was looking into a while back. In My area We >> have a lot of historical homes as well as buisness, that all need repairs >> and details made to fit there old buildings, to bring them back to original >> look, Old details like spirals as well as fluted columns, on both the >> inside as well as outside decor are needed to keep the buildings standings >> up to par. and not all the repairs are hard one to make. >> When I was up north, I talked to a man who was replacing some old fence >> posts. What he had was a 4x4x8 wood post with a long tappered cut on the >> top that made it look like a large diamond. I told him he did a nice job, >> and asked him if he made that on a table saw or a jig saw? He told me NO, >> he had to pay $55.00 per post to match the original ones.(local codes...) >> I thanked him and left. Meanwhile I was thinking that this post could be >> made for something like $10.00- $18.00 and with just a little work... it >> would have been easy money to make. >> Perhaps ??? a differant market is needed here? After all it is all supply >> and demand right? YOU Just have to figure out what everyone wants. and >> then sell it to them. :-) I know easer said than done. but I am looking at >> doing something JUST like that in my future. Antiques and Resteration . >> But my dream still remains to make a barley twisted telaphone pole, so I >> too will have to look into making my self a Longer Legacy, Someday... ;-) >> >> Have a good night . >> C.A.G. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Hello Joe, >> >> Yes, I now remember. I especially like the video you posted. Some time >> ago, I bought everything I need to put together two 900s to make a TK >> Conversion that should allow me to turn 11 inches diameter by 9 plus >> feet.. My problem has been getting to it. >> >> I would have thought there would be outdoor columns or even indoor >> columns. I always thought that the large twist columns were a small >> market, but columns with flutes. >> >> Begat >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:29 PM, joe biunno <finu...@aol.com> wrote: >> >>> begat, >>> i picked up an 1800 from a guy in florida, back around august, >>> i believe...this legacy originally was intended to be set up with the cnc >>> package legacy was selling at that time...and i have all the drive >>> motors,brackets,computer interface,etc...basically all you would need to >>> set up the machine as a cnc that would have come from legacy...all brand >>> new, never used in the original packaging...not interested in setting up >>> the cnc though as my guys in the shop certainly are not able to learn the >>> program skills needed to run it...so it is carefully packed away for >>> now...and since it was set up for cnc, it did not have a typical legacy >>> gear motor set up at the end of the lead screw...small problem...but i >>> wanted an extended machine anyway, so a second hunt began...found a 1500 >>> around the pittsburgh area...it had the gear motor,z carriage,and other >>> accessories, so i picked that piece up...really wanted another 1800, but my >>> lack of patience and budget restraints forced me to go for the 1500...fast >>> forward to today and i have successfully combined the two, giving me 15 >>> feet between centers...everything (machines, base, rails,etc.) comes apart >>> very easily and quickly for ease of transport(think pickup with an 8ft bed >>> would easily do the job)...another added bonus is i have two carriages, >>> both with the z axis so i can play with one for some kind of whacky >>> accessory or whatever i feel like...or sell it perhaps...also gave me some >>> extra railing,gear sets,head stock and tailstock ,etc,etc...the joining >>> process was done in such a way that nothing was modified or changed on >>> either machine...so i could put both machines back together, if i ever >>> wanted to sell the two individual machines...now just playing with >>> modifications and accessories for this piece and waiting for some twist >>> work to come to the shop...you got the extended answer because i have not >>> much to do at this time!...LOL!...any questions, best to ask now before i >>> completely lose my mind!...thanks...joe >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 1:49:48 PM UTC-5, Begat wrote: >>> >>>> Joe, >>>> >>>> Which Legacy models do you have? >>>> >>>> Begat >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 12:08 PM, joe biunno <finu...@aol.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> begat, >>>>> you are 100% correct...it seems american taste has shifted >>>>> into a "minimalist" mode...furniture having turnings and carvings are not >>>>> in vogue and that opens the doors for any decent woodworkers who have a >>>>> table saw and band saw to make functional,straight-line furniture...now, >>>>> i >>>>> am not knocking that type of furniture because we also make it when >>>>> asked...but it knocks down the price point due to the increased >>>>> competition >>>>> and larger shops are suffering...i know a few in my area that have either >>>>> gone out or downsized quite a bit...their overheads are just eating them >>>>> alive and they can't meet the price point that a one or two man shop >>>>> can...very frustrating...i could even make an educated prediction that >>>>> there is a good chance i will never see a break-even return on the money >>>>> i >>>>> spent to acquire, then modify, the two legacys i have...i am glad i did >>>>> it >>>>> though because i always wanted one and i enjoy playing with woodworking >>>>> equipment/tools/machinery... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 5:51:16 PM UTC-5, Begat wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Joe, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The bench, especially the legs, look great. I have also concluded >>>>>> that the Legacy mills, whether cnc or ornamental, are really about >>>>>> spirals >>>>>> and twists. And this is the problem--that's Victorian stuff and people >>>>>> want fairly plain Arts and Crafts mostly. >>>>>> >>>>>> Begat >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 3:11 PM, joe biunno <finu...@aol.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> ok, seems you guys miss me and my insanity...update time...well, >>>>>>> business STINKS!...have not had an opportunity to take "elvis" out for >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> test run yet, things are that bad...any straight fluting or reeding(on >>>>>>> poles,legs or finials) we might do, we do on our shaper using a >>>>>>> "french" >>>>>>> spindle and an indexing head...excellent for straight and/or shaped >>>>>>> pieces...the legacy could never do this as fast as this method does the >>>>>>> job...the legacy is used for twist work...and so far not a single job >>>>>>> has >>>>>>> been presented to us...but the cnc debate is interesting...just >>>>>>> finished >>>>>>> making a pair of benches that had a custom designed leg(see attached >>>>>>> photo) >>>>>>> that i was able to send to a friend's company that has a 10 spindle >>>>>>> computerized CNC machine...we first carved a model leg, he then scanned >>>>>>> it, >>>>>>> prepped the blanks and the machine took over...automatic,computerized >>>>>>> bit >>>>>>> changes made his work none labor intensive...of course there was a good >>>>>>> amount of time in the scanning process and then a lot of time cleaning >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> scan up and additional detailing that the scanning missed...all done at >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> reasonable price that fit into our budget...makes investing in CNC >>>>>>> equipment very attractive but only if the work is there to keep the >>>>>>> machine >>>>>>> going...and there lies the problem...from a business standpoint, our >>>>>>> shop >>>>>>> currently does not have the work to justify the purchase of a CNC...and >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> also consider the time in learning various code programs and what >>>>>>> not...now >>>>>>> if i was 30 years old, my approach would be different...to think i >>>>>>> might >>>>>>> have opportunities to use a CNC over the next 35-40 years, i think i >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> consider making the investment...but at this juncture(59), i feel i >>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>> have an expensive piece of equipment sitting idle in my shop...so i >>>>>>> feel it >>>>>>> best to stick to farming certain parts of a job out to other shops that >>>>>>> have the latest CNC machines and using my legacy for poles, longer work >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> any twist work that i might have...and i do check in on this group >>>>>>> several >>>>>>> times a day and am especially interested in the drill press add-on that >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> posted not to long ago...this was something i had on a list of >>>>>>> accessories >>>>>>> we planned to make for the big guy...except we were planning to set up >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> quick release and attach method for different accessories like a drill >>>>>>> press and perhaps a mortiser and of course routers(one with the >>>>>>> angled/rotary table we made and a straight forward router)...all these >>>>>>> would simply "click" onto the Z axis platform...now some of these ideas >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> a bit out there and perhaps not very prudent but since machinery and >>>>>>> machinery modifications are also a bit of a hobby to me, i enjoy >>>>>>> spending >>>>>>> some spare time and some spare money(if i ever get any!) to achieve >>>>>>> some of >>>>>>> these goals...certainly will post photos of anything worthwhile...any >>>>>>> comments,good or bad, are certainly welcome...joe biunno >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:48:28 AM UTC-5, Va Oak wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Joe! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, you Joe. - we have not heard from you in quite a while. Are >>>>>>>> you busy building an even bigger LOM? ;-) How about some pics of >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> "The Beast of The East" has produced - like perhaps some really long & >>>>>>>> fancy drapery rods? >>>>>>>> Hope all is well with you & your company (and that you are still in >>>>>>>> business/able to stay that way - given our current economic situation). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mac >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: joe biunno >>>>>>>> Sent: Feb 25, 2014 8:40 AM >>>>>>>> To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> Cc: mwfo...@earthlink.net >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Legacy Artisan 72 for Sale in Southern California >>>>>>>> asking 18000 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> mac, are you referring to me?...joe biunno >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, February 24, 2014 12:52:47 PM UTC-5, Va Oak wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We have not heard from "Jumpin' Joe" in New York in quite a while >>>>>>>>> - maybe, if he sees the post, he'll travel to CA and bring it "back >>>>>>>>> East". >>>>>>>>> :-) >>>>>>>>> What about that, Joe? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mac >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: "storm...@snet.net" >>>>>>>>> Sent: Feb 24, 2014 12:42 PM >>>>>>>>> To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Legacy Artisan 72 for Sale in Southern California >>>>>>>>> asking 18000 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would be interested if I wasn't at the other end of the country. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubs >>>>>>> cr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group >>>>>>> /legacy-ornamental-mills. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/ >>>>> group/legacy-ornamental-mills. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > . > To post to this group, send email to > legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. 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