Hello again Joe
I ONLY cut in one direction on my mill. I use Mike Pungs method when ever possible when turning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjcFpO51upw I find it speeds up my production without any Human error or back lash of the gears. Check this video out. C.A.G. ----- Original Message ----- on a similar note, i once asked andy if the gearing was that tight on the legacy, could you advance the index and cut on the return stroke, and the indexed cut would be perfectly in place...he said yes, but i found it hard to believe...to do that there would have to be zero slop in the gears, not a bit!...has anyone experienced this in their use of the machine?...to clarify, if you make a cut going from the head stock to the end of your work piece, do you then index and make the next cut on the return stroke?...or do you go back to the head stock, index, and then begin the next cut, which would take more time to complete the work piece, of course?...this gear slop issue has always been a problem for me...on the older, not-legacy machine...curious if the legacys might have similar issues...thanks...joe On Saturday, March 1, 2014 3:25:29 PM UTC-5, joe biunno wrote: tim, thanks for the reply...but i am not worrying about anything breaking...or slipping or a set screw coming loose...nor do i anticipate extreme drag causing that amount of pressure on the lead screw...what i am concerned about is that small amount of drag that would/might cause the lead screw to twist just a bit to throw off the gear ratio from one indexed cut to the next...i am referring to when doing twist work only...and on the twist machine we have been using for the past twenty five years(not a legacy), there is a tremendous amount of "slop" in the head stock gears that you have to pre-load the gears before you begin the next cut so your indexing and spacing will be consistent throughout your work piece...we often do 12 cuts on a 2 1/4" dia. pole...so the gear slop issue is a big problem...on our old machine, the drive system attached to the router carriage is a roller chain...so there no worry of the chain causing a problem of the "timing" between the work piece and the gearing of the head stock...just the slop in the gears...which is why i bought the legacy in the first place...the slop problem was getting worse and i got tired of dealing with it...so my thinking is the linear bearings have to be an improvement over the top hats, which under most circumstances, would work just fine...in retrospect, i could have installed a larger diameter lead screw(with a matching split nut)...but if i am going to spend any money, i feel it would be best spent on the bearings...is it necessary?...maybe not...but part of my job at work is to anticipate potential problems and have a solution...for most, if not all,of the guys on this site, they are running their legacies themselves and getting a "feel" as to what their machine can do and what it takes for the machine to run at it's best...in my case, i am delegating the operation of the machine to one of the men in the shop...so i need to make working the machine bullet proof and simple since they do not know all the theory behind the workings of the legacy and it's potential nuances...thanks again for your thoughts...i consider them well informed and helpful...joe On Saturday, March 1, 2014 10:46:10 AM UTC-5, Tim wrote: <blockquote> Joe, I had another thought, gear strain and motor binding is not an issue. The split nut will fail first. Generally by lifting and twisting then stripping out one side of the threaded portion. The support block underneath will remain okay. Also the locking collars on the leadscrew will tend to move under extreme twisting pressures. I think the motor will stop and hum at you well before you twist and split the leadscrew. Even if it is only slightly over 3/8" at it's smallest diameter. If you would like to falsely concern yourself, consider that the gears mount on a tiny amount of metal with a hole and small screw holding it on :-). That could twist off some day but I just don't see it happening. I will add Legacy on their big machines did offer the 4x gear set. Those gears where based on the 12 diameter pitch vs. the 24dp. In other words, the teeth where twice as thick. The material might have also been 10ga instead of 11ga. I don't have a 4x set. Bill, could you measure how thick the a-g gears are on 4x set? I say run it till it breaks and we can figure out a fix, but if everything keeps getting heavier and stronger, you will find a week point somewhere! -Tim <blockquote> ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Krause To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 7:13 AM Subject: Re: linear bearing system upgrade for a legacy machine See the attached file on climb milling. I really think if there is any binding without the leadscrew engaged, that needs to be addressed first. Your carriage should be able to move with your index finger. -Tim <blockquote> ----- Original Message ----- From: joe biunno To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com Cc: noki...@msn.com Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 6:42 AM Subject: Re: linear bearing system upgrade for a legacy machine thanks for the replies...i am missing something here as i don't understand what the concern is in regards to putting a "brake" feature on the carriage because it would most likely move too easily...and what specifically is curtis referring to when he mentioned "climb cutting" and the carriage running away from the operator?...wouldn't the carriage be locked onto the lead screw, thus preventing it from running away on a bearing slide?...or is the concern here from doing a milling where the carriage is not attached to the lead screw?...one of my big concerns is the fact that i have a 15ft lead screw...if there is any variation in tension/friction when doing multiple cuts on any piece, long or short, the accuracy of indexing those cuts would be compromised...very frustrating when you are doing a 12 cut job and on the 11th cut, something goes wrong and the piece is ruined...the legacy lead screw is only 5/8" in dia. and that is the o.d....the i.d.,after accounting for the depth of the threads, is obviously less(not currently in the shop to take an accurate measurement)...i would have to think the drag factor from those top hats would/could cause a twisting flex in the lead screw...of course, the shorter the lead screw, the less of an issue...but i am referring to a 15ft lead screw...and thus the possible benefit gained by installing the linear ball bearings...would like some feedback on this...thanks guys...joe On Saturday, March 1, 2014 7:27:14 AM UTC-5, Curtis wrote: <blockquote> Yes that's my thoughts as well. Bill But Ive been thinking, all indurstral machines that I know of are made out of heavy cast iron, I just woundering if a lighter alum. or steel frame (with or with out linner slides) could conpair? We are talking Apples to apples. I know well first hand what the Legacy can do, (and its down wright impressive ) But can a bearing make up of the stability factor? Or dose it just add a greater freedom of movement, I dont know? Perhaps one or two brake pads with a controlable pad pressure, could add the stability that you need to keep the bearing from flying away when cutting? Just playing around with some ideas. Have a great day everyone. C.A.G. Perhaps a adjustable brake pad of some sort would take care of that curt Bill From: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com [mailto: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of CURTIS GEORGE Sent: Saturday, 1 March 2014 11:29 AM To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: linear bearing system upgrade for a legacy machine Hello Joe I also looked at there bearing sets in the past. I Agree with you that it looks very nice. The only concern that I have is the Linear bearings them self's, as far as to much freedom, climb milling would be pretty scarry stuff , Perhaps a break of some kind could be used to keep control of the carriage? I guess what we need is a smooth movement but movement that we can control when we need it. Just my two cents worth of it here. I like I said Ive been looking into the same idea. Im not sold on the bearing yet, but I do argee that its a step in the right direction. Have a good night. C.A.G. begat had provided a link to a linear bearing set up in a recent thread and i thought i would share a system that i am seriously considering as an upgrade to my extended bed machine...there is a you tube video ........... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKjPfyuxCXg ...........which shows a low profile linear bearing system that is very compact...has a load capacity of 110 lbs...aluminum and steel construction...built in adjustment capability to pre-load the bearings...and sealed bearings... there web site is also very detailed and informative............. http://www.pbclinear.com/UGA-Low-Profile-Uni-Guide-Linear-Slide ....... basically, as i have laid out the install, their rail(which is only 1 7/16" wide), would mount on top of the legacy rail using the legacy sliding t-nut pieces...their carriage is only 3" deep(front to back on the legacy) X 3 1/2" wide(left to right)...each carriage has 4 ball bearings, for a total of 16(total of 4 carriages)...there is a chance that the rail could be mounted slightly off center on top of the legacy rail,cut the carriage a bit to reduce the depth and you would possibly not need to modify the legacy, z-axis base...a couple of screws to attach the z-axis to the top of the carriages and you are done...the rail and carriage would only raise the z-axis 3/4", so a simple re-mount of the legacy split nut is all that is needed...seems simple enough with very little modification to the the legacy...i have requested a sample of the rail and one carriage which the company was kind enough to send me at no charge( i believe the do this for any potential customer, so send them a request and they will send you a free sample).........now the fun part... what does it cost?...carriages are $150.00 each, so that is a total of $600.00...the rail comes in 10 ft. lengths and costs $262.00 per length...so if you doing a 5ft, machine one length will do...anything longer and you need to buy two lengths...so a 1500 legacy would be in the range of $1200.00 to do this upgrade...worth it?...i would think so, especially if the install is as easy as i might have laid out...i might have some concerns when doing twist work on longer capacity legacy machines(especially mine!), the friction and drag the carriage will cause( from those black "top hats") could put a lot of stress on the headstock gears, the gear motor, lead screw bearings and other parts...and also the chance of the the carriage "chattering" is a big concern as well...but the bearing install would moslt likely eliminate any chattering...i would think this eliminates the need for any dyna glide or other lubricant sprayed on the rails...i get my sample next week and i'll know more after doing a mock up...anyone out there have any opinions or suggestions...all would be appreciated...thanks...joe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group. 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