Pam,

To be absolutely clear, I am not aware of any real-world examples of a set
of trademark guidelines causing incompatibilities, but with the badgeware
licenses... it's hypothetically possible that a malicious actor could try
to create such a scenario.

Tom



On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 9:49 AM Pamela Chestek <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ok, now you got me started ...
>
> I would not consider trademark guidelines as enforceable against the user
> of a trademark. You have no idea whether a user ever saw them and probably
> there is no mechanism for obtaining the assent of the person. (OTOH, they
> are enforceable against the trademark owner under equitable principles like
> estoppel.)
>
> So if the copyright license says "modify, share!!", you may not be able to
> undo that by saying in the trademark guidelines, "oh, we didn't really mean
> that thing we said about 'modify, share!!' in the copyright license."
>
> Will you be able to say "well, we're talking about two different things
> here, they can modify and share the *copyright*, but trademark is a whole
> different matter and just because they can copy and share the copyright
> doesn't mean they get to create confusion!!" Yes, you can argue that. Will
> it work? Maybe. Do I think that it's going to work 100% of the time? Nope.
> (Reflect for a moment on patent licenses granted implicitly because of the
> copyright grant.) But what will work 100% of the time is NOT granting a
> "modify, share!!" copyright license to start.
>
> Pam
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:44 PM Tom Callaway <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hmmmm. I wonder what the SPDX answer is for "copyright license on a logo
>> that really should be trademark guidelines"...
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 12:41 PM Miro Hrončok <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14. 05. 20 18:37, Tom Callaway wrote:
>>> > In this case, this is a logo, which is also a trademark (though, not a
>>> > registered one as far as I can see).
>>> >
>>> > Since the software does not require the logo to be present (or to be
>>> more
>>> > specific, the software _license_ does not require this), and there are
>>> no
>>> > restrictions on distribution (only modification), it seems to me that
>>> this logo
>>> > presents no real risk or burden to our users or downstream.
>>> Additionally, it is
>>> > noteworthy that the Fedora logos (and other FOSS logos such as the
>>> Firefox and
>>> > Chromium logo) are part of Fedora with similar restrictions on
>>> modifying them.
>>> > Ideally, these restrictions would be separated from the copyright
>>> licensing (as
>>> > they would be more applicable as trademark use guidelines), but the
>>> intent is clear.
>>> >
>>> > Assuming that Richard Fontana agrees, I would be inclined to clarify
>>> our stance
>>> > on permissible content (as found here:
>>> >
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Packaging:What_Can_Be_Packaged)
>>> to
>>> > call out the following as another example of permissible content:
>>> >
>>> > * Logos/trademarks are permissible, as long as all of the following
>>> conditions
>>> > are met:
>>> >   A. The logo/trademark files are distributed by the owner (or with
>>> the clear
>>> > and explicit permission of the owner)
>>> >   B. The logo/trademark files are distributable by third-parties.
>>> >   C. The logo/trademark files have a direct relationship to software
>>> under an
>>> > acceptable license that is present in Fedora (or about to be added at
>>> the same time)
>>> >   D. Any existing trademark guidelines/restrictions/rules on the
>>> > logos/trademarks do not prevent Fedora (or anyone) from fully
>>> exercising the
>>> > rights given them in the licensing on the associated software.
>>> > Permission to modify is not required for logos/trademarks, but their
>>> use must
>>> > NOT be contingent upon restrictions that would conflict with the
>>> license terms
>>> > of the associated software. Two examples:
>>> > 1. The associated software may require the removal or replacement of
>>> the
>>> > logos/trademarks if the software is modified. Removing/replacing the
>>> logos does
>>> > not prevent Fedora (or anyone) from fully exercising the rights given
>>> to them in
>>> > the FOSS software license. In this case, the software and the logos
>>> would be
>>> > permissible, but the logos may have to be removed/replaced if Fedora
>>> (or anyone
>>> > downstream) makes modifications to the software. Packagers in such a
>>> situation
>>> > should be especially careful.
>>> > 2. The software license cannot require the logos/trademarks to be used
>>> in the
>>> > software and simultaneously have trademark guidelines that only permit
>>> use on
>>> > unmodified versions of the software. In this scenario, neither the
>>> logos nor the
>>> > software would be permissible in Fedora.
>>> > If you're not sure if a logo/trademark is acceptable for inclusion,
>>> feel free to
>>> > bring the specific situation to the attention of Fedora Legal for
>>> review.
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> > Under these criteria, the lua logo would be acceptable (as would the
>>> existing
>>> > Firefox/Chromium logos).
>>> >
>>> > Thoughts?
>>>
>>> This is exactly the rule I assumed we already had but couldn't find.
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> BTW If this goes fine, what would I put in License? GPLv2 and Lua Logo?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Miro Hrončok
>>> --
>>> Phone: +420777974800
>>> IRC: mhroncok
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> legal mailing list -- [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>> Fedora Code of Conduct:
>> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
>> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>> List Archives:
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected]
>>
>
_______________________________________________
legal mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
Fedora Code of Conduct: 
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
List Archives: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected]

Reply via email to