Thanks for that words of wisdom and support. Yeah I know that you're right in every letter. I remember how I started to learn vim in deep. I used "modern" IDEs and felt that they I know a few about code w/o them, I cannot do very basic things w/o dozen of plugins. It was my motivation to simplify my environment and process. Now, looking at leo, I foresee great opportunities it gives, but also I foresee that ocean of time it'll take. The main problem of our world is that it wants us to complete the job yesterday, so learning another practice becomes cumbersome issue. Hope some years later I'll become closer to your level.
пт, 19 июл. 2019 г. в 17:23, Chris George <technat...@gmail.com>: > I stumbled across Leo in 2007. > > I went through the exact same learning curve issue but even worse because > I am a writer, not a programmer. I would pick Leo up and put it down, > discouraged. > > But I kept coming back because there was simply nothing else like it > available. > > Now I live in Leo. I work on themes. I fix simple bugs. And every day I > learn more about Leo, about python, and about how to expand my knowledge of > the ways Leo can make me a more organizaed and effective writer. I expect > that I will be doing this right to the end of my life. > > Leo is like a big box of nuts, bolts, and incomprehensible metal bits with > holes in them. Everyday I figure out a little more which makes the next day > a little easier. Every now and then I discover things that change > everything. Abbreviations, for example, were a revelation that > revolutionized how I work. I looked back in my files and I wrote my first > @outline-data tree-abbreviations template in 2014, seven years after > creating my first outline. > > It does take a buttload of effort to get up to speed but the benefits to > me as a writer have been huge from an organization and productivity point > of view. And I now know enough to see how the Leonine way of dealing with > code is fundamentally different than anything else out there. > > I encourage you to stick with it and get past the curve. > > Chris > > On Friday, July 19, 2019 at 6:37:27 AM UTC-7, gar wrote: >> >> I want to add some more words about leo's learning curve. >> To use leo efficiently you need to invest inconceivable amount of time. >> You need to examine code which makes buttons, debug why shortcuts doesn't >> work, investigate theme issue etc. >> There are plenty of topics which are just touched in the manual and which >> promise you the real power if you learn them. >> I do remember how all of my everyday activities just stopped for a 2 >> weeks when I found leo - and I cannt say that those 2 weeks gave me alot.... >> >> Actually, you need to invest about couple of years to start gain real >> profit from leo - which is quite comparable with vim or emacs. >> But there's no such a time resource to invest, and I believe most if new >> users just quit - cause leo w/o knowing it's magic runes is not really that >> attractive as any of modern IDE. >> >> I came into leo just because i already used IDEs for years, I know them >> all - MSVS, Intelli, RStudio, plain VIM etc - and I do see where they are >> weak and how Leo can help in that fields. >> but even with this knowledge I cant answer where to take time to learn >> another super complicated tool - especially when memories about how hard >> did it take to learn vim are so alive.... >> And then you start to think that RStudio + bookdown is quite good for you >> - just because you can just install it and get immediate result and you >> dont need to spend evenings experimenting with DOM and @button. >> >> пт, 19 июл. 2019 г. в 16:10, gar <gar...@gmail.com>: >> >>> Hello Vladimir. >>> >>> Actually I discovered Leo when I tried to compile my diploma chapters >>> into a single book. It was a bundle of MD files which took alot of >>> attention to chain into anything reasonable. i guess you know what am I >>> talking about. >>> >>> Leo solves this problem absolutely. It's perfect for writing any kind of >>> texts. But I do really miss some editing commands I use frequently with vim. >>> Now I am making node texts very small to edit them as rarely as possible >>> but it's not the right approach. >>> If I had more time and knowledge - I would make some outstanding plugins >>> which fix all that editing crap but... for now I have to re-teach myself >>> for another editing paradigm. Which I dont really like, actually. >>> >>> So the first-call task for me is to adopt Leo to my editing habits. I >>> agree to loose VIM language - but I need all the variety of it's features >>> back. Some of them can be found in the standard leo's commands (like >>> rectangular select) but most of them work with it's own flavor - and it's >>> hard to accept. I am still not sure that I will stay with leo more since I >>> just dont want to loose VIM habits I learnt for years which seem more >>> powerful for me than LEO's outstanding features. OK, almost everything LEO >>> suggests I can make with global search-n-replace.... >>> >>> Until I solve the editing issues I wont be able to give more feedback >>> about other limitations. I am trying to code some utility commands and I >>> love it, python looks more pleasant for me then vimscript, etc, etc, >>> but.... >>> >>> чт, 18 июл. 2019 г. в 20:13, Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas < >>> off...@riseup.net>: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> The path Vitalije is suggesting was the one that worked best for me >>>> with Leo... but took me years to discover it by myself. My first script was >>>> one that took a Leo (sub)tree and exported as a Markdown file in a desired >>>> path, using Leo node headers as Markdown headers and Leo node bodies as >>>> contents for such headers. The code was crappy and I never packaged it as a >>>> plugin (or even made a keyboard shortcut), but it taught me a lot about Leo >>>> main feature: a programmable DOM/tree that could be introspected/changed >>>> from any of its scripts nodes. That started the path that allow me to build >>>> my own (Pharo powered) interactive outliner for the PhD. >>>> >>>> It was until I started to use the programmable DOM that Leo opened >>>> really for me (before that, the killer feature, as a non-programmer were >>>> clones), because I understood that Leo provided an extensibility layer to >>>> deal with its own limitations via scripting (which aligned with my PhD >>>> question on "how can we change the digital tools that change us"). I think >>>> that such scriptabilty possibilities could be better transmitted if we have >>>> some friendlier "end user" experience to install plugins, something like >>>> the stuff Atom or Firefox do, listing all installed and available plugins >>>> and making them one click away of distance. >>>> >>>> So, following on Vitalije's advice, I would invite you to see, which >>>> limitations Leo has for *you* right now and to explore which is the >>>> simplest script to overcome it and talk with the community to see how can >>>> we be companions for such travel. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Offray >>>> On 28/06/19 4:28 a. m., vitalije wrote: >>>> >>>> I think that I should pay more attention in learning the paradigm. Read >>>>> more docs, try to write a couple of plugins. >>>>> For now I need a tool to build my book from Rmds - maybe it'll be a >>>>> good challenge to write such a plugin which would connect Leo, bookdown >>>>> and >>>>> R. >>>>> >>>>> I suggest you to start by writing scripts for experimenting. Once you >>>> have a good and useful script you can put a headline on it something like >>>> '@button my-script @key=Alt-4' . (replace my-script with something >>>> meaningful and Alt-4 with the shortcut of your choice). Next time you open >>>> that outline your new command, a toolbar button and shortcut are at your >>>> service. >>>> >>>> Once you have a bunch of usable scripts you might want to pack them in >>>> a plugin. >>>> >>>> Everything you need to do you can achieve by writing scripts only. >>>> Plugins are more for sharing useful scripts. Developing a plugin is not so >>>> easy because for every change you need to start a new instance of Leo to >>>> check if it works or not. OTOH scripts are live, and every change in the >>>> script is immediately visible. If you put your scripts in myLeoSettings.leo >>>> they will be present in every other outline you open, almost as if they >>>> become an integral part of Leo. >>>> >>>> Vitalije >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "leo-editor" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to leo-e...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to leo-e...@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/29f2dddf-e576-406f-ae5a-7157b7644337%40googlegroups.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/29f2dddf-e576-406f-ae5a-7157b7644337%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "leo-editor" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to leo-e...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to leo-e...@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/91bc88ab-76f8-8056-a983-22030d8a1a45%40riseup.net >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/91bc88ab-76f8-8056-a983-22030d8a1a45%40riseup.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "leo-editor" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/19e591cd-c42d-46fd-945e-d2c4d638e23b%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/19e591cd-c42d-46fd-945e-d2c4d638e23b%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. 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