Hi! I also use the set of shortcuts Tomas has proposed. I've also never had inconsistencies with ctrl+i for insertion.
About promote/demote : yeah..... :/ ...I've also never used the shortcuts because ctrl+{ nor ctrl+} work for me. (pyqt/tlcTk must use the ascii code instead of the keyboard scancode I dunno ) Also - I never know what those do... There should be a label beside or underneath in the menu that states "Promotes childs of the selected node" or "Promotes the selected by demoting its children" to make it clear what is promoted / demoted and what stays... as its ambivalent... always have to try it , undo, realize I wanted the other one... (with a node being selected, calling a command "promote" or "demote", only, has an unclear meaning) -- Félix On Tuesday, August 4, 2020 at 9:40:49 AM UTC-4, Thomas Passin wrote: > > You are so right about this. I use Leo a lot, and as you say, I have > worked out ways to work with it. But I don't know about many basic things > because I haven't encountered the right bit of documentation. For example, > I didn't know that <INSERT> would insert a new node. > > Because Leo can do so many things, and has so many commands, it's hard to > know how to write useful HELP material. After one has used it for some > time, it gets, as you say, hard to realize that a new user may not be able > to find the things you do all the time. On top of that, documentation is > spread around through various places. > > As for Leo unpredictably opening one file or another on startup, I have > never experienced that. When I first started using Leo, it automatically > created and opened workbook.leo, and since I leave it opened, it's always > there. I first used it back in version 4.something and we're now at 6.2.x, > but I think it still works that way. So something quirky is happened for > you. Maybe someone else knows about it. > > If you haven't tried yet, configuration can be awful unless you find the > exact string to add or change, and its location, because someone else > published it somewhere. > > Despite these problems, I have found Leo so good to work with that I have > been willing to live with its HELP and configuration weaknesses. > Personally, I think that we - the Leo community - should take on a project > to produce at least a good introductory HELP system. There are several > documents, but as you have clearly told us, they aren't up to the job. The > trouble is, the work would take a lot of time and effort, and isn't very > interesting to most people. Of those who pass those filters, few of them > are able to re-create what it's like to be a beginner, and to know how to > organize the material to be highly helpful. > > These difficulties aren't unique to Leo, of course. You should hear my > Significant Other complain about the LibreOffice word processor, since it > sometimes works differently from Word. But Leo's outline machinery works > so differently from what most people are used to that it may be harder for > them to get started. If you can get past this newbie period, you may find > (like I did) that Leo is worth it. > > Here are the commands that I use for basic Leo operations on the outline - > I learned them from the Outline Menu: > > - For inserting a node, I always use <CNTRL-I>. This always puts the new > node just under whichever node is already selected in the outline. > > - For moving a node, I always use <CTRL-u> for UP, CNTRL-d for DOWN. > > - For moving a node sideways, I use <CNTRL-r> for RIGHT (i.e., indenting > it: making it a child node of the one above), <CNTRL-l> for LEFT. > > - For copying a node, I would use <CNTRL-SHIFT-C> but it doesn't work on > my keyboard (a new wireless Logitech) so I resort to using the Outline menu. > > - For pasting a copied node, I use <CNTRL-SHIFT-V>, which my keyboard is > willing to emit. > > On Tuesday, August 4, 2020 at 5:44:09 AM UTC-4, Vedran Čačić wrote: >> >> I really want to use Leo. I think the premise is great. However, I think >> the interface has so many pitfalls for beginners, and since you all >> probably use Leo for a long time, you don't really see it. I've been >> struggling with it for a week already. >> >> First, when I start Leo, sometimes it opens the default document (with >> the help), sometimes it opens the last opened one, and sometimes it just >> opens new document. I still haven't been able to see when each of these >> happens. >> >> Second, inserting nodes. Yes, I know I can press Insert. But whether it >> will insert new root node or a child of already selected one (or even a >> child of last node) seems simply random. And of course, according to >> Murphy, it's always the action that I don't want. :-/ >> >> Third, moving nodes. I still don't understand what Promote and Demote >> does, not to mention that on my keyboard Ctrl+{ and Ctrl+} doesn't work (it >> probably works only on US keyboard). I really think there should be an easy >> way to move the nodes around, after all it seems like a main feature of Leo. >> >> Fourth, help is abysmal. None of the above things I could find in help. >> Example: I press F1, and get (it's not even copy-pasteable?!): >> >> Alt-0 hide this message (ok, that's nice to know) >> To learn about <Alt-X> commands... sorry, I don't know whether I want to >> learn about <Alt-X> commands. I don't know what <Alt-X> command _is_, >> anyway. I just want to move a node under another one. >> To get a list of help topics... great, I think. I type <Alt-X>help-<tab>, >> and get a list with only three items, none of which is relevant. Only afer >> a long time, I notice the scrollbar - the contrast is almost nonexistent. >> :-/ And yes, I find help-for-drag-and-drop, click on it, and... nothing >> happens. Oh, I have to type it again? Ok, but why? Couldn't this work the >> same way as the outline? >> >> And after all that, I get (again, un-copy-pasteable) "you may drag >> nodes". Yes, I know I can drag them, that's the first thing I tried. The >> problem is, it almost never works. Sometimes I get a child of the node I >> dragged to, sometimes I get its sibling. And sometimes it doesn't work at >> all. The nodes just stay where they are. >> >> Other help options are the same as "Alt-X" above... they pressupose a lot >> of knowledge about Leo I don't already have. For example, how to find about >> inserting nodes? It's not mentioned anywhere that I see. I got lucky with >> Insert key, but as can be seen above, I'm still not sure what exactly it >> does. >> >> If you really want Leo to be used by new users, you have to work on this. >> Maybe just help needs to be reworked, now it seems like a reference. Maybe >> my mindset is wrong... I have never really used Emacs, and the interface is >> obviously based on it. :-/ >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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