Travis Pahl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in part: >> >> Wilson >> >> out-campaigned them. >> >And the opponents name?
>> Damned if I can remember. Try looking it up. >I did. Can't find it. I found it in a few seconds of Googling (advanced search on string "board of elections" + civil + court + judge + Bronx + primary + 2004. It was the first hit: www.vote.nyc.ny.us/pdf/documents/boe/ 2004DesignationOfVacanciesForJudgeOfTheCivilCourt.pdf Name is Marc Whiten. I was there for some of the official canvas by the Bd. of Elections, and sure heard & saw the name enough, but that's how I am with names. >My problem is you are continually trying to argue that it is worthless >to spend any effort on the LP, that instead we should work with the >Republican and Conservative parties because that is where they can get >elected and then you use an example a man who got elected in your >opinion because people thought he was black and ran as a Democrat. >What does that have to do with him being a Conservative party member? Nothing. It has to do with the fact that he ran AS A DEMOCRAT. Had he run only as a Libertarian, he'd have no chance in the gen'l election, but now he has no major opposition. (I forgot whether he also got the Republican nomination or their line is blank. Working Families I don't know about. You can go back to the URL above and it'll probably be there.) RUN IN LARGER PARTIES. >> What I'm showing is that you can be conservative (this is why the >> capitalization is important -- not no capital there) and win the Democrats' >> nomination. >And you were telling me this in response to me asking you how your >influencing the Conservative party has been helpful. But that was only part of a thread about political effectiveness. > The candidate >appears to have already supported medical marijuana before you ever >spoke to them in the Conservative party, How would you know that? We've sat together on the executive committee for years, and I knew him as an activist in the Conservative Party before that. The entire executive committee voted in favor of NYC's gov't adopting a resolution in favor of a more effective medical marijuana law than NY's existing one. During the time I've been involved with the Bronx Conservative Party (since 1981), I've seen attitudes of the activists change on drug policy. There's considerable sympathy now for less punitive measures being imposed on drug users, for instance. I suspect my presence has caused some of my thinking to rub off, because the state Conservative Party is still in the punitive mindset and opposed to med mj. So we need more libertarians to be active in the Conservative Party all over the state. Hell, we need more libertarians in ALL parties in ALL states & countries! I also think it possible that had attitudes about marijuana not changed on the executive committee, someone other than John Wilson might have been nominated by us, and we might not have encouraged him to seek the Democratic nomination, or to run at all. So I think John Wilson is going to be a judge partly because of me. (I helped with his campaign in more direct ways too.) >> > He >> >is going to be elected because he has the word DEMOCRAT written next >> >to his name. He will be elected as a DEMOCRAT. >> No, he'll be elected as a Conservative enrollee with the Democratic & >> Conservative nominations (and possibly those of some other parties, I >> forgot). >Call it what you want, Damn it, use language with precision! > Which line do you think will all his votes be >from? None. However, I do think MOST (or at least a plurality) of his votes will come on the Democrat line because that's what most voters pull around here. > What letter do you think will be next to his name in the >papers? Once he's elected, "(C)". That's how the media abbreviate the enrollment status of office holders. Pending the election, "(D,C)" or "(R,D,C)" (I don't remember how the R line is -- maybe even "(R,D,I,C)" because I con't remember about Independence), because that's how the media do THAT. > What Party leaders do you thhink he will listen to? I hope as a judge, NONE!! He'll have to resign his position on the executive committee because of the laws limiting political involvement of judges. However, John Wilson is definitely not beholden to the Democratic leadership; remember, the Democratic leadership opposed his nomination and are upset that an insurgent pulled this off. We also nominated for supreme court judge someone who got elected civil court judge as an insurgent Democrat in 2002. >> > And you are trying to >> >convince me to vote for Bush so that a DEMOCRAT does not get elected. >> >How does this story help? >> No, I specifically said the contrary -- that you need to pay attention to >> the candidates and the races one at a time. I didn't say it was important >> not to have any Democrat elected president -- just not THIS Democrat as >> opposed to this Republican. I also wrote that at this time, it would be >> better to have more Republicans in Congress. >You did not say the contrary. You said something slightly more >specific but certainly not contrary. You want people to vote for Bush >so Kerry does not get elected and in argueing this, I ask you why you >support republicans who have been increasing governent. You then >respond that you are not a Republican but actually a member of the >conservative party. I ask how this has helped decrease government and >you respond that you influenced this guy who is going to be elected >soon. Yet he is a Democrat. HE IS NOT A DEMOCRAT, he's a Conservative!!!! How many times do I have to explain that?! Do you not understand the concept of running for the nomination of a party you don't belong to? My influence on him comes from contact via the Conservative Party, in which we're both activists. But I certainly don't hope to have any direct influence on cases he'll be the judge of! Judges are supposed to be impartial in individual cases. However, he DOES have a certain IDEOLOGY. >Now you are saying oh... it is important to look at the individuals. >That is what I have said from the begining! Look at both Bush and >Kerry. They both have HORRIBLE records when it comes to limiting the >size and scope of government. And, since one is going to be elected, and since no other candidate is going to make a strong enough showing to keep up momentum for the future other than Nader, it's important that it be the less horrible. So it's important to promote Bush and Nader and nobody else. >> Anyway, the individual makes the difference. Steve Kaufman's an enrolled >> Democrat, but I support him for the state senate. >Good for you. He is also running as a conservative and Republican He ran for the Republican nomination, but lost the primary to Fleming. He beat Fleming in the Conservative primary, partly due to my effort. > and >according to SCOPE (http://www.scopeny.org/ARCHIVES/SCOPE_Canidate_Ratings_2004.pdf) he >is as bad as you can get on gun rights. Yes, but that's because he was voting with the Democratic majority in the Assembly. He plans to vote with the Republican majority in the senate. As you should know, most of the important votes in the NY & NJ legislature (committee & floor) are highly controlled by the party leadership, so it's almost impossible to tell differences among Democrats & differences among Republicans by their votes in the legislature. That's why you need to get to know them individually. Unfortunately most committee meetings, at which you might get a better chance of seeing the influence of individual legislators, are closed. >> > ANd you are trying to convnice me that the >> >Conservative party is important when you even admit that he could not >> >get one single vote from your party line and still get elected. >> >> When did I ever write that it was impossible to get elected in NY without >> the Conservative nomination? >When did I ever claim that you did? ABOVE!! "[H]e could not get one single vote from your party line and still get elected." You seem to say that the only way the Conservative Party could be important would be if nobody could get elected without some votes on its line. > All I am saying is that the >conservative party has nothing to do with this guy getting elected, We got to know him over the years, gave him political experience, helped him make connections, and encouraged him to run. That's a more useful than the experience people get in the Libertarian Party. >> I described his background (colleague on the county >> executive committee of the Conservative Party) just to show that I know him >> well and can vouch for his goodness. >Thanks for vouching for this guys goodness. Now tell me why I should >care who this guy is or whether he is good or not. Don't you want good guys, rather than bad guys, in office? If you had a case before a judge, would you want the judge to be one of the types the regular Democratic organization usually favors? Otherwise, what's the point of politics? If you don't care to know anything about the candidates, what's the use? >> >Name a political organization that has been successful in reducing the >> >size and scope of government through the Rs and Ds. >> A bunch of organizations got the draft abolished that way. >When you turn 18 you still get sent a postcard demanding you register >for the draft. They are not actively calling kids up right now, but >it is not abolished. Actually, even Selective Service REGISTRATION was abolished for several years during the 1970s. But you're trying to make mincemenat of the words again. The draft was abolished, and there's still no draft -- hasn't been for over 30 years, after over 30 years og their having been one. > There just has not been a need for it lately, >but that may soon change as well. So? Slavery was abolished, but that could come back too; it was re-instituted in Equatorial Guinea in the 1970s, for instance. Burning witches was abolished (gradually, BTW), but that could always be re-instituted. You're asking for the impossible -- permanent change in human affairs. That could be accomplished by only one thing -- extinction of mankind. Arter that, no policy changes could occur. In Your Sly Tribe, Robert _______________________________________________ Libnw mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://immosys.com/mailman/listinfo/libnw http://immosys.com/mailman//pipermail/libnw
