Thanks, Paul. That's the kind of information I was hoping to find. It's
incredibly disheartening and I hope that it's something Wikipedia will
reconsider.

Best,

Kathleen

On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 1:55 PM Paul S. Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:

> Not "individual practices"; this is an English Wikipedia Policy:
>
> >Do not use articles from Wikipedia (whether this English Wikipedia or
> Wikipedias in other languages) as sources. Also, do not use websites that
> mirror Wikipedia content or publications that rely on material from
> Wikipedia as sources. Content from a Wikipedia article is not considered
> reliable unless it is backed up by citing reliable sources. Confirm that
> these sources support the content, then use them directly.[11] (There is
> also a risk of circular reference/circular reporting when using a Wikipedia
> article or derivative work as a source.)
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Wikipedia_and_sources_that_mirror_or_use_it
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 12:24 PM Kathleen DeLaurenti
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all -
> >
> > Thanks for the responses. Regardless of our individual practices, I
> don't see any good coming from Wikipedia positively asserting that it
> should "never be cited," and that's the crux of my concern here.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Kathleen
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 1:17 PM Paul S. Wilson <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have never considered user-generated content on Wikipedia to be more
> than what librarians call a "discovery service".
> >>
> >> Briefly skimming an article on a subject l may know little about, I
> invariably evaluate the sources rather than the text and hit the cited
> references. In my 15-year experience, even the weakest and most apparently
> biased articles have at least a few refs that lead to citable sources and
> larger literature.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 11:54 AM Merrilee Proffitt <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I completely agree with Kathleen. I would assert that it is a lack of
> nuance around the nature of information sources and the research task at
> hand that has lead educators and others to wholesale "ban" the use of
> Wikipedia.
> >>>
> >>> Whether or not a source can be utilized in a research context depends
> on the researcher, and what information they are supporting with the
> citation. For my middle school daughter doing some investigation on an
> element in the periodic table (as she has been doing this week), the
> Wikipedia English article (or any encyclopedia article) is appropriate for
> her. For a graduate student in chemistry this would not be appropriate, but
> the grad student might (appropriately) cite Wikipedia for some basic
> definitional stuff, just as they might cite a dictionary or something
> similar. You see Wikipedia utilized appropriately in citations all the time
> -- why would we discourage this?
> >>>
> >>> Having conversations about the veracity of online information is
> tough. Wikipedia can be challenging because articles are at various levels
> of development. To my mind, this makes it something that those of us
> engaged in conversations around information literacy should steer towards,
> rather than away from, because a) Wikipedia is widely utilized in a variety
> of contexts and b) it is a great teaching tool for talking about when you
> can trust information online and when you should steer clear. But saying
> "no" to any information source without having a discussion about it seems
> lazy. It definitely does not reflect the type of discourse we should be
> having, especially now.
> >>>
> >>> I look forward to more discussion on this topic.
> >>>
> >>> Merrilee
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 9:02 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) <
> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Twitter doesn't facilitate reasoned arguments. I suppose as usual the
> >>>> goal was to encourage greater use of the references and other
> >>>> meta-content of Wikipedia articles, which are excellent tools for
> >>>> critical thinking.
> >>>>
> >>>> Federico
> >>>>
> >>>> Kathleen DeLaurenti, 26/09/19 17:55:
> >>>> > Hi all -
> >>>> >
> >>>> > As a librarian who uses and supports Wikipedia, I wanted to bring up
> >>>> > some issues around the BuzzFeed article posted today about M-Journal
> >>>> > that has led to some messaging from the WikipediaUK twitter account
> that
> >>>> > I find concerning. I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to
> >>>> > bring this up, but I wasn't sure where else to reach out.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > For those who missed, a citation cite is not manufacturing journal
> >>>> > articles if a student submits a Wiki article so that it looks like
> an
> >>>> > "official" citation in their school research papers.
> >>>> >
> https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/wikipedia-fake-academic-journal?bftw&utm_term=4ldqpfp#4ldqpfp
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Clearly there are some nefarious potential uses here, but what's
> more
> >>>> > concerning is that the WikiUK twitter account has come forward
> >>>> > forcefully saying that Wikipedia shouldn't be cited in the
> literature.
> >>>> > Period.
> >>>> > https://twitter.com/wikimediauk/status/1177215917534711808
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I work very hard to improve the cite through my courses and academic
> >>>> > advocacy as do many librarians. It's concern to me to see Wikipedia
> >>>> > undermining its own authority in such a public way in what appears
> to be
> >>>> > a misguided attempt to deflect association with the MJournal site.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Would welcome any insight or ideas on how to navigate this
> discussion.
> >>>> > The entire M-Journal use case exists, imho, because we are still
> >>>> > battling for a critical (not blanket acceptance) view of Wiki as a
> >>>> > resources, and I find this kind of public statement to be very
> damaging
> >>>> > to the hard work so many are doing to create a quality information
> resource.
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>> [email protected]
> >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/libraries
> >>>
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