Actually, Dennis, this sounds like it's your opinion. On Wed, Nov 30, 2022, 12:59 PM Dennis Picker <dennis.pick...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The kitchen is an example of including nice to have vs. essential needs in > the proposal. > > The kitchen that is included in both high end options is described as a > kitchen that can accomodate cooking classes and the weekly senior dining > lunch. > > Cooking classes might be a nice addition to our program offerings but do > we want to pay capital cost to enable them? Cooking classes are available > at reasonable cost from LS Adult ed, Minuteman adult ed, and I hear at > Codman farm. In addition, there are numerous restaurants and individual > enterprises that offer cooking classes. Some would be easy for seniors to > access, some less so. Nice to have, but not essential. > > Senior dining is currently carried out offsite from Bemis and although > having it under the same roof as everything else might be nice, it is again > a nice to have and not an essential. There are other options for where to > provide this service- the current locations at Stone church or St. Annes, > potentially Pierce House. The kitchen there is small scale and oldish. > But, high end catered weddings are routinely held there. A senior dining > program there using take-out food seems feasible. > > If you change the kitchen requirement at a newly built community center to > not have the floorspace and appliances needed to hold multi-person cooking > classes or to prepare group meals from scratch you can build a smaller room > equipped with fewer/less expensive appliances. > > This will not save $5 million. It won't save $1 million. It is an easy > to grasp example of how the two options that are only choices we have been > given include nice to have features that add cost beyond what would be > required in an option that focused only on no-frills, just the real > essentials. > > The kitchen is not the only example. The 10 year process has, > unfortunately, never revealed a vetted list of essential needs versus "nice > to have if we want to pay for it." > > I accept that during the outreach process some people, I don't know how > many, said "can we have cooking classes?" That doesn't mean there is broad > support for adding this service. It is very easy to say "I want that" > without having to deal with "it will cost you X" when you add it to the > wish list. > > I understand and am sympathetic to the situation you describe with your > mother. I am 75 and preparing meals is a drag. The senior dining service > is what the town offers to address in a small way that need. There is > probably opportunities to improve the senior dining experience that we > offer, but I am not convinced that we need an expensive large shiny new > kitchen to achieve that. > > Bottom line, we can disagree about the kitchen or about any other "nice to > haves". All I have been asking is that we get a believable path to seeing > an honest-to-goodness option on the table that includes only the on-frills > stuff, and then the voters ultimately choose which one we spend money on. > The debate, in my mind is not about the kitchen it is about the absence of > needs/wants clarity, the absence of a no-frills choice to consider. > > Dennis Picker > > > > > On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 12:35 PM DJCP <djcp0...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Why the harping on the kitchen? Do you think cutting the kitchen is >> going to save $10 million? The cost is going to be relatively nominal. >> >> Plus, it seems like people who are opposed to the kitchen have the >> privilege of not having had to watch their aging parents lose the ability >> to safely cook at home. Cooking was a big part of my family growing up, as >> it is for many, and I think my mom would have enjoyed watching cooking >> classes. (The Codman kitchen, while lovely, is in the barn and does not >> have a lot of room for sitting, nor is the barn temperature regulated.) >> It's almost like there were people on a committee and people were surveyed >> to find out what could best serve the COA community, and these were the >> ideas that were raised! >> >> Diana >> A former member of the dreaded "sandwich generation" and may you never >> need to know what that means if you don't already >> Giles Rd >> >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 11:34 AM Karla Gravis <karlagra...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> The problem is the starting point of $25M, which includes so many >>> “wants” like a teaching kitchen and a cafe. >>> >>> Inflation shouldn’t be the reason we push forward a $25M project without >>> understanding our true needs. >>> >>> Wayland, which has so many more residents than us, is building a >>> community center for $11M and at 13Ksqft (half the size we’re proposing). >>> >>> We need to level-set our needs, and spending $325K on refining proposals >>> will *not* get us there. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 11:11 AM Lis Herbert <lisherb...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sara: >>>> >>>> Do not try to contort the meaning of my words and frame me as >>>> insensitive. Don’t. >>>> >>>> I didn’t say that I think $25 million is something to sneeze at. I said >>>> it will seem like peanuts if we delay, ie when the town is presented with a >>>> 40M price tag down the road. >>>> >>>> The history of these projects has shown that 11M can balloon to 25. The >>>> first school vote was for roughly half what the new school ultimately cost. >>>> That’s mostly the result of waiting, and little else. >>>> >>>> Lis >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 9:19 AM, Sara Mattes <samat...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Calling $25 million “peanuts” is a bit much. >>>> >>>> While it may be “ peanuts” to you, a significant portion of our >>>> population would find it otherwise. >>>> And, to date, no one is talking about the Town operating budgets and >>>> what they will look like, going forward- after we address teachers >>>> contract, the hiring a new Superintendent, changes in Town Office staffing >>>> and the impacts of inflation across the board. >>>> >>>> I suspect we will see the need for an override to support the staffing >>>> needs. >>>> >>>> That is part of the total tax package that has an impact on individual >>>> households. >>>> >>>> So, what may be “ peanuts” to you, may have serious and crushing >>>> impacts on others. >>>> >>>> We need to be mindful and sensitive to that reality. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 9:05 AM, Lis Herbert <lisherb...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Sara: >>>> If this process is delayed or stopped entirely, again, the price tag >>>> for needs may well exceed current “wants” — many of which, judging by the >>>> survey results the CCBC circulated yesterday, are pragmatic, and reflect a >>>> community’s needs in 2022, not 2012. >>>> $25 million will seem like peanuts when it’s time to vote on whatever >>>> the next iteration of this process is 5 or 10 years down the line. And >>>> people will surely wonder then, if the vote is for a center in some unknown >>>> location near Donelan’s, why it isn’t sited at Hartwell? >>>> And around and around and around we can go, forever. >>>> Lis >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 8:51 AM, Sara Mattes <samat...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> That was then, this is now. >>>> We have gone through some radical changes in the last several years. >>>> Our economy is volatile. >>>> Our work lives have changed, as have commuting patterns. >>>> >>>> Should put our fingers in our ears, hands over our eyes and act as if >>>> it is 2012 all over again ? >>>> >>>> We need to be more flexible and creative to meet the needs ( and be >>>> careful about “ wants”) of the town in 2022 and beyond. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 8:41 AM, Sara Mattes <samat...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Times have changed, and so must we. >>>> >>>> There is an opportunity tonight to be more creative. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On Nov 30, 2022, at 8:26 AM, DJCP <djcp0...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Oh great, let's wash 10 years of work down the tube so we can start on >>>> a new project. >>>> Diana >>>> Giles Rd >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 8:16 AM <jrob...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello friends, I will *not *be voting in favor of the community >>>>> center project now… for several reasons explained below. If these >>>>> considerations and others you have give you pause, I hope you will join >>>>> those of us who are interested in further discussion. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> First, Lincoln’s once in a generation Comprehensive Plan, approved at >>>>> Town Meeting ~ten years ago prioritized revitalizing our South Lincoln >>>>> commercial center. *Without a vibrant place to gather, we risk >>>>> becoming an inert, mono-culture suburb,* of increasingly high priced >>>>> single family homes and residents who can afford them. A vital Mall at our >>>>> center would be a place to gather, meet with friends, and exchange ideas >>>>> with others who have diverse backgrounds and views. Before locating a COA >>>>> or Community Center building at the school property we should evaluate its >>>>> potential to jump-start and support commercial and civic growth at the >>>>> mall >>>>> and help Lincoln slowly and steadily transition into the dynamic community >>>>> we can be. It’s time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We haven’t had a thorough review of town goals or prioritized them >>>>> since the Comprehensive Plan. If we choose to ignore the last >>>>> Comprehensive >>>>> Plan, let’s plan again. Let’s agree on priorities. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There seems to be an ongoing, important, and complex discussion re the >>>>> distinctions and requirements of a community center vs. a facility for our >>>>> Council on Aging program….prudence dictates these be thoroughly studied >>>>> and resolved before being considered for funding by town meeting. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And this project will cause real estate taxes to increase above the >>>>> rate of inflation, again. It will be particularly troubling now for >>>>> seniors >>>>> living on a fixed income >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Let’s consider/reconsider these matters fully before we vote for a >>>>> community center or a COA facility at school property. Let’s get this >>>>> right. Please consider voting No. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best, Joe >>>>> >>>>> Joe Robbat >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >>
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