Linux-Advocacy Digest #572, Volume #25 Thu, 9 Mar 00 13:13:09 EST
Contents:
Re: The Windows GUI vs. X (Re: Windows 2000 is pretty reliable) ("Drestin Black")
Re: Disproving the lies. ("Drestin Black")
Re: Disproving the lies. ("Drestin Black")
Notebook Computer & Linux - Advice Needed ("ax")
Re: Salary? (Paul Jakma)
Re: Salary? (Paul Jakma)
Re: I can't stand this X anymore! (Jim Gettys)
Re: 11 Days Wasted ON Linux
Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or Linux
("Charles W. Swiger")
Re: BSD & Linux (Marc Espie)
Re: BSD & Linux (LEBLANC ERIC)
Re: I've been Cleansed (Tim Kelley)
Re: Linux Demo Day a letdown ("Joseph T. Adams")
Re: BSD & Linux (Tore Lund)
Re: Disproving the lies. (Matt Gaia)
Re: Open Software Reliability (Mike Kenzie)
Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or Linux
(John Jensen)
Re: Thoughts and answers sought for Linux research article (DeAnn Iwan)
Re: Linux for the Navy ("Joseph T. Adams")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Windows GUI vs. X (Re: Windows 2000 is pretty reliable)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 10:01:21 -0500
"Donn Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Matthias Warkus wrote:
> >
> > It was the Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:19:52 -0500...
> > ...and Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Guys, it's OK to like Motif.
> >
> > You are missing an important point. Compared to GTK+ or Qt, Motif is
> > medieval technology. It's a pain in the rear to program. Ever
> > contemplated how many lines it takes to write a simple GUI "hello,
> > world" program in Motif, as opposed to GTK+ or Qt?
>
> Hmmm - here's my version:
>
> #include <Xm/Label.h>
>
> XtAppContext context;
> XmStringCharSet char_set;
> Widget toplevel, label;
>
> int main(int argc, char **argv)
> {
> Arg al[10];
> int ac;
> ac=0;
>
> toplevel=XtAppInitialize(&context, "", NULL, 0, &argc, argv, NULL,
> 0, 0);
> XtSetArg(al[ac], XmNlabelString,
> XmStringCreate("Hello, World!", char_set)); ac++;
> label=XmCreateLabel(toplevel, "label", al, ac);
>
> XtManageChild(label);
> XtRealizeWidget(toplevel);
> XtAppMainLoop(context);
> return 0;
> }
>
> $ wc -l hello.c
> 23 hello.c
>
> I agree with you to an extent that it is "medieval technology". But,
> it kind of has that "Athena++" sort of look. The "Classic X toolkit"
> look can be kind of cool in a retro sense.
>
> - Donn
>
My version:
MsgBox "Hello World"
:)
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Disproving the lies.
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:54:09 -0500
"2:1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > UNIX compatible TCP/IP, Berkeley Sockets, RPC, NIS, NFS, DCE,
> > CORBA, MQSeries, X11, datastreams of ascii text, kosher XML,
> > IRC and IRC-II, PVM, and MPI. Not to mention programming
> > languages like PERL, ANSII standard C++, PYTHON, interactive
> > shells, cron, sed, grep, awk, lex, yacc, and cobol.
> >
> > Sure, you can spend a few grand and get all these goodies, but
> > they aren't part of the standard package. Windows 2000 comes
> > with qbasic, vbscript, and XML/ActiveX. Even the JVM is so
> > dependent on ActiveX and Microsoft-only APIs that it isn't useful
> > as an integration tool.
>
>
> No!!! It cant!!!!
>
>
> Does NT *really* come with QBasic?
> If it does, then that in itself is reason enough to shun it.
Not "QBasic" but does include windows scripting host support which includes
the visual basic script language which is a very powerful tool at the
command line. it's no c compiler but who want's to write c code at the
command line?
>
> I HATE qbasic. I recently used it to write a Tetris game
> FYI, a friend had a broken Win instalation, but working dos. She was
> *really* pissed off at having no games (tetris is soothing don't ya
> know). Having no C compiler for DOS, I had to write the game in
> (compiled) Quasic.)
no games for DOS? Best check again - in the bargin bin, sure, or on-line
but, there are still some. Duke Nukem and Doom come to mind.
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Disproving the lies.
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 09:58:19 -0500
"Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:yoOx4.7$py.361@client...
> Even if you gave away the OS and the database you still don't get even
close
> to what you claim.
>
you have the same opinion of rexes crap as I do... what you wrote above is
what I've been trying to hammer into the linvocates heads and they just
don't get it. the price of the OS is insignificant except to single PC home
users (well, less than middle-class income ones at least). I mean, if you
can't afford a $300 OS - how can you possibly call youself a computer
professional?
------------------------------
From: "ax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Notebook Computer & Linux - Advice Needed
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 15:58:31 GMT
I plan to buy a notebook computer to run Linux.
But I am not sure which notebook computer
will be the best choice. Can someone tell me
which brand of the notebook computers work
the best with which brands of Linux?
Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
From: Paul Jakma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:02:36 +0000
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> You're pretty much right on. The risk of getting assaulted in the US is
> relatively low, but a *lot* of people are robbed, usually at gun point.
scary. i couldn't live in a place like that. Of course Dublin City has a
crime problem, but mainly burglary/theft, ie non-violent.
Outside of dublin things are a lot better.
>
> BTW, the cops here not only carry guns, those NYPD guys use them and boy
> do they have itchy trigger fingers
so i've heard. My dad was in the states a long while ago, and he was
driving down a highway and was lost. He saw a patrol car parked at the
side of the road up ahead, and decided to stop and ask the friendly
policemen for directions.
So he pulls up the behind the cop car, get's out and strolls up to cop
car and just as he got to the drivers door, the cop slammed the door
open and pointed a gun at my dad telling him to get down slowly, etc..
So after being frisked against the side of the cop car my dad managed to
explain that he was just a tourist who needed directions. The cop
apologised but explained that he had been suspicious cause in the US
people just don't stroll up to the cops like that!!
scary country....
> --
> Donovan
good luck!
-paul.
------------------------------
From: Paul Jakma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:03:06 +0000
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> You're pretty much right on. The risk of getting assaulted in the US is
> relatively low, but a *lot* of people are robbed, usually at gun point.
scary. i couldn't live in a place like that. Of course Dublin City has a
crime problem, but mainly burglary/theft, ie non-violent.
Outside of dublin things are a lot better.
>
> BTW, the cops here not only carry guns, those NYPD guys use them and boy
> do they have itchy trigger fingers
so i've heard. My dad was in the states a long while ago, and he was
driving down a highway and was lost. He saw a patrol car parked at the
side of the road up ahead, and decided to stop and ask the friendly
policemen for directions.
So he pulls up the behind the cop car, get's out and strolls up to cop
car and just as he got to the drivers door, the cop slammed the door
open and pointed a gun at my dad telling him to get down slowly, etc..
So after being frisked against the side of the cop car my dad managed to
explain that he was just a tourist who needed directions. The cop
apologised but explained that he had been suspicious cause in the US
people just don't stroll up to the cops like that!!
scary country....
> --
> Donovan
good luck!
-paul.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Gettys)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: I can't stand this X anymore!
Date: 9 Mar 2000 16:47:47 GMT
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 04:13:39 GMT
> Newsgroups:
> comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.development.apps
> Subject: Re: I can't stand this X anymore!
> -----
>
> speaking of which, why dont you post some instruction so
> I can use my compaq 1800xl with X windows. This Xconfigurator
> stuff in free unix (linux) does not work
>
Seeing I don't have a 1800xl, I don't think I could help you.
I run X on a Presario 300, Presario 5630, and Armada 6500: those I can
help with...
- Jim
--
Jim Gettys
Technology and Corporate Development
Compaq Computer Corporation
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: 11 Days Wasted ON Linux
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 16:53:49 GMT
On Thu, 09 Mar 2000 07:26:56 +0000, Ron House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Well, there is one point here: RH distributions contain unproven
>experimental rubbish that hasn't had its raw edges knocked off.
For example?
------------------------------
From: "Charles W. Swiger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or
Linux
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:09:11 GMT
In comp.sys.next.advocacy John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Salvatore Denaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>: Are you assuming that there was some conscious effort not to port
>: things to Linux? What makes you think this?
>
> It is easy to divide a post into fragments and contest each fragment in
> isolation. Why don't you go beyond that. Either accept that Apple has a
> strategy to provide an "alternate platform", or explain to me what their
> real strategy is.
Apple want to provide a integrated, user-friendly computing solution. They
sell both hardware and software which is closed tied together, and that
combination is the Mac platform. I don't think Apple wants to provide a
"alternate platform", I'm sure they'd rather be the primary desktop computing
environment.
-Chuck
Chuck 'Sisyphus' Swiger | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Bad cop! No Donut.
------------------------+-------------------+--------------------
I know that you are an optimist if you think I am a pessimist....
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marc Espie)
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc
Subject: Re: BSD & Linux
Date: 9 Mar 2000 17:07:40 GMT
In article <8a7cqm$bmv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 5X3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The fact that it CAN be installed on laptops doesnt mean that its been
>written with workstation applications specifically in mind. I can run linux
>on an S/390, but that doesnt mean that linux was written with mainframe
>applications specifically in mind.
No, but it's a general OS. Why shouldn't I be able to use it to run
desktop applications ? (as a matter of fact I can).
>> Of course, you can always buy one laptop per OS.
>> Want to buy me a second laptop, so that I can stop having Linux, OpenBSD,
>> Windows all on the same hard-drive ?
>> --
>
>I dont know why you have openbsd on a laptop when you also have linux and
>windows; it seems to me that youre doing it more for kicks than for actual
>use---which is fine. But openbsd isnt a "workstation" operating system
>either.
Define `actual use'.
- linux: teaching (showing another OS at work), looking at competition (grab
some of the modules idea, see how linux is implementing locale support), quake.
- windows: games
- OpenBSD: all the rest: programming, developping, writing papers, listening
to mp3, playing with pictures...A
I really don't see the point in shoe-horning people into OSes... I have
legitimate uses for Linux, for OpenBSD, and even for Windows. More often
than not, it comes down to practicality issues (I don't have the time to
install everything so it works on OpenBSD, nor the hd room to get a full
wine install, and even then it's doubtful Alpha Centauri, Tomb raider, nor
Arcanes would work), and likes (OpenBSD...).
--
Marc Espie
|anime, sf, juggling, unicycle, acrobatics, comics...
|AmigaOS, OpenBSD, C++, perl, Icon, PostScript...
| `real programmers don't die, they just get out of beta'
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (LEBLANC ERIC)
Subject: Re: BSD & Linux
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:19:40 GMT
Tore Lund ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: dbt wrote:
: >
: > Peter da Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> says:
: > >
: > >If I could get a Linux kernel with FreeBSD userland I'd probably be happy
: > >with that.
: >
: > Which is funny, because Debian is working on the opposite, because they
: > like the performance advantages of the FreeBSD kernel.
There was a time when i would agree with that but i don't think the gap
is that big anymore. I run both linux and FreeBSD and the difference is
the userland.
:
: I thought Debian was about to adopt HURD, correct me if I am wrong.
No, you're not. Actually some Debian developpers are working on the HURD
while some others are working on making a FreeBSD Debian. It's all about
choice.
------------------------------
From: Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I've been Cleansed
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:53:22 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> After wasting some where near a month TRYING in vain to switch to
> Linux I have finally found my home, and that is Windows 98 SE.
>
> Linux seemed like a good idea on the surface, I mean who could argue
> with free?
>
> Unfortunately the carpet started to unravel after the first day. While
> Windows installed fine and set up dial ups, printers, scanners, SCSI
> devices, Networks, Video cards, Sound cards and so forth right out of
> the box. Linux required that I surrender my first born in order to
> make the simple happen.
Sometimes a post is so blatantly and completely full of shit that
anyone, even Drestin Black, can see it.
I've installed win98se, nt, and linux hundreds of times, and
win98 has, by far, the worst, most monstrous, mind numbing, &
sanity depriving installation of any OS in the world. NT comes
next, which is still worse than even slackware circa 1996.
If you have a plain vanilla IDE setup it seems OK. I've not even
been able to get the win98 cd to even BOOT if there is a SCSI
adapter or SCSI CDROM/RW in the system. That is absolutely
fucking pathetic.
There is no way some clueless dolt is going to have an easy time
of installing Win98SE on, as you say, with "printers, scanners,
SCSI devices, Networks, Video cards, Sound cards and so forth".
Total fucking BULLSHIT.
If M$ could somehow figure out how to use linux+Red Hat's
installer to install THEIR pathetic windows OS, maybe they could
get somewhere.
Well, get used to installing windows.
You'll be doing it very often.
--
Tim Kelley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Demo Day a letdown
Date: 9 Mar 2000 17:36:17 GMT
Gooba <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in part:
: Refer to alt.os.linux. Check out how many posts there are regarding the
: shaky SBLive! support. It's a mainstream card that is very popular and not
: yet fully and reliably supported. I'd say any program or OS that doesn't
: support a brand-name card is pretty choosy. Even if support is coming, my
: point is not undermined by that fact because it isn't here yet.
Free operating systems require hardware whose specs are published
accurately and in sufficient detail. That was emphatically not the
case at the time SBLive! was released, and from what I understand, it
is not true even today.
I would prefer for Linux not to support closed-spec hardware at all,
because if it didn't, there would be much greater pressure on hardware
vendors to release the specs and documentation for their products.
It makes no more sense to blame Linux for not supporting proprietary
Windoze-only crap, than to blame a world-class athlete for not eating
fast food. Fast food may be popular; it may be cheap; if you're
hungry enough, it may even taste good. But don't expect to be able to
eat it and still continue to be a world-class athlete.
Joe
------------------------------
From: Tore Lund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc
Subject: Re: BSD & Linux
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:43:21 +0100
LEBLANC ERIC wrote:
>
> Tore Lund ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> :
> : I thought Debian was about to adopt HURD, correct me if I am wrong.
>
> No, you're not. Actually some Debian developpers are working on the HURD
> while some others are working on making a FreeBSD Debian. It's all about
> choice.
That's good, but the FreeBSD variety is not so easy to find on the
Debian web site. Maybe someone could give me a pointer? Thank you in
advance.
--
Tore Lund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: Matt Gaia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Disproving the lies.
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:48:15 -0500
: you have the same opinion of rexes crap as I do... what you wrote above is
: what I've been trying to hammer into the linvocates heads and they just
: don't get it. the price of the OS is insignificant except to single PC home
: users (well, less than middle-class income ones at least). I mean, if you
: can't afford a $300 OS - how can you possibly call youself a computer
: professional?
The question is not really can you afford it though. It's more like
"Unless you're a brain-dead lemming on crack, why would you spend $300 on
an OS when you can a different, better OS for free?"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Kenzie)
Subject: Re: Open Software Reliability
Date: 9 Mar 2000 17:51:05 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mike Kenzie)
Christopher Browne ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes:
> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when mlw would say:
>>> "Frank Mayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>>
>>Lastly, the idea that one can "institute and enforce" demanding quality
>>standards is a joke. It can't happen. One has to be a good software
>>engineer to recognize bad code, it had NOTHING to do with coding
>>standards or any other non-sense that passes for management, it has to
>>do with how you construct your algorithms, how you access data in a
>>loop, etc. For instance:
>
> Indeed. This is the aspect of things like ISO-9000 that is a "lie."
>
> The claim is that if you use "quality procedures," a "quality result"
> is guaranteed.
I think the goal of ISO-9000 is a consistant result, not nessesarily the
best result. The goal is to have the company survive when the hotshot
developer decides to leave.
> Reality lies elsewhere. A truly high-quality result will have the
> somewhat ineffable quality of "elegance." And *that* requires having
> someone involved that has:
>
> - Freedom of action, to design things the way *they* wish,
> - Clarity of vision, to know what it is that they wish to design,
> - The "intelligence" (for lack of a better term) to be able to make
> this result "elegant."
> --
> "I doubt this language difference would confuse anybody unless you
> were providing instructions on the insertion of a caffeine enema."
> -- On alt.coffee
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or
Linux
Date: 9 Mar 2000 17:52:57 GMT
Charles W. Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: In comp.sys.next.advocacy John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: > Salvatore Denaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: >: Are you assuming that there was some conscious effort not to port
: >: things to Linux? What makes you think this?
: > It is easy to divide a post into fragments and contest each fragment in
: > isolation. Why don't you go beyond that. Either accept that Apple has a
: > strategy to provide an "alternate platform", or explain to me what their
: > real strategy is.
: Apple want to provide a integrated, user-friendly computing solution. They
: sell both hardware and software which is closed tied together, and that
: combination is the Mac platform. I don't think Apple wants to provide a
: "alternate platform", I'm sure they'd rather be the primary desktop
: computing environment.
The integration and user-friendlyness is easy to see. I agree that their
hardware and software integration gives them a unique advantage in
building a friendly computer.
But how would they become the primary desktop computing environment?
Could they make enough computers under their own name for everyone, or
does this require cloning?
John
------------------------------
From: DeAnn Iwan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Thoughts and answers sought for Linux research article
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 13:01:22 -0500
Tom Steinberg wrote:
>
>.....
> 1) What is interesting about Linux? Why do people talk about it at all?
>
It is stable. It is robust. It is available with source code.
Having source code means that it can be more secure (since you can tell,
in principle, if people have put in back doors, etc and since you can
close holes yourself if you have to). It has tremendous longevity (runs
on many generations of hardware / varieities of hardware AND has source
available). It takes advantage of 30 years of code written in acedamia
and by other perveyors of "freely available" software.
> 2) Why has Linux achieved what it has?
Uhm, see No. 1.
>
> 3) What has Linux really achieved?
Hmm. See No. 1. Or do you mean things like market share (I've
heard 31% of web servers and 'several' percent of web browsing
machines...but have no data to cite).
>
> 4) Where is Linux heading, realistically, in the short, medium and long
> terms?
Everywhere. To tiny palmpilots, to your thermostat, to your desk
top, to your antique pc that will be turned into a home router/firewall,
to your ISP, to your university's supercomputer.
>
> 5) Is Linux sustainable as a project? Is it more or less sustainable than
> non-free projects?
Certainly as long as it is very useful to many people it will be
sustainable. It clearly has reached and passed "critical mass". Many
people contribute to it at least in part because of the GNU license (to
give something to the rest of humanity that will stay available to them
in perpetuity). But a project does not have to be given away to be
useful enough to perpetuate itsself. DOS was so useful, for example,
that it is still perpetuated under win98SE and perhaps another round or
two of OSes, and is still fostered by companies (DR DOS) and open
software (FREE DOS).
>
> 6) Is Linux actually aiming at a level of desktop usability on par with
> Windowz? If so, when? If not, why not?
Well, considering the number of users who have and/or want it on
their desktop, I expect things will improve. BTW, "windowz" is a slur.
One does not need to slander other OSes to praise Linux.
>
> 7) Is it more than just a typical manifestation of idealism which cannot
> threaten the products of the financial incentives of the proprietory
> software world? Could Linux become the CND of the modern age, if the
> Microsoft case ever ends?
Time will tell. But certainly Linux use on on the upswing.
>
> 8) Which is better Windows or Linux? ( jk )
>
>
It depends. I have many games that I want to play that do not run
on Linux under wine or dosemu (yet). When I want to play those games,
Win9x is more suitable. Well, not for the dos ones. Dos 622 is more
suitable for those. And not for those that run under Linux. Linux is
faster and has a more reliable and faster frame rate for things like
Quake. But for the games that will only play under windows right now,
then windows is better. For everything else....I like linux better.
Your milage may vary. Well, unless you have hardware for which there
are no linux drivers. If you only have win drivers, then windows is
probably better, too.
------------------------------
From: "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.linux,alt.os.linux,alt.uu.comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux,dod.pb.af,dod.pb.misc,dod.pb.navy
Subject: Re: Linux for the Navy
Date: 9 Mar 2000 18:04:09 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Geoff Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: It would appear that the Yorktown's Standard Monitoring Control System was
: neither robust, nor redundent.
: At the very minimum, one would expect that by the time the system was
: installed it would protect itself from idiots at the consol. The fact that
: it was impossible to reset the system indicates that the database s/w was
: flakey and had no internal protection nor any method to rapidly restore
: itself to a previous known good state.
: The presence of NT probably didn't help, but no OS can compensate for bad
: design.
Agreed, but anyone who's stupid enough to use NT in a life-critical
situation can hardly be trusted to make competent decisions in other
areas either.
Aside from the problems and limitations of the OS itself, incomplete,
nonexistent, or bad analysis and design are very common in the Windows
world. No one would try to build a significant building without a
blueprint, but Windows developers often are expected to "just code,"
using the very shoddiest of tools, and the results tend to speak for
themselves.
At least in most civilian applications, the resulting costs and
problems don't cause people to die.
But under the stressful conditions that prevail during times of armed
conflict, even systems that "can't" fail can and do, resulting in loss
of life, liberty and property. To deploy an important system in such
a situation which is KNOWN to be unreliable - whether the OS itself,
the hardware platform it runs on, the application that runs on it, or
as in this case, all of the above - is not only unconscionable, but
tantamount to treason. I hope that those responsible were disciplined
accordingly, and that the necessary lessons have been learned such
that no one will be tempted to make a similar mistake in the future.
Joe
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