Linux-Advocacy Digest #709, Volume #25 Mon, 20 Mar 00 10:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (abraxas)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (abraxas)
Re: Linux (was Linux s****) ([EMAIL PROTECTED],net)
Re: A pox on the penguin? (Linux Virus Epidemic) ([EMAIL PROTECTED],net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:39:56 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting 5X3 from alt.destroy.microsoft; 13 Mar 2000 17:52:56 GMT
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Norman D. Megill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>> You also didnt have to remove the pcmcia stuff to install.
>
>> Yes I did.
>
>You know, you swear up and down that you dont know anything about
>computers, that youre not a system installer person, etc. and then you
>have the bollocks to disagree with someone who actually knows what
>theyre talking about. I'm beginning to understand exactly why the
>tech support person on the other end of the phone gave you the
>instructions they did. I probably would have told you to throw in
>a little chant and a coupla hail marys in there too.
They do. You haven't any idea what you're talking about, sorry. You may feel
like the "King of all PCs", but yes, he did. Gateway knows he did, I know he
did, he knows he did, MICROSOFT knows he did. Why are you so sure he didn't?
>> Well, perhaps I could have pushed them in simultaneously instead of one
>> at a time,
NO! YOU CAN'T! YOU'LL HAVE TO START OVER FROM SCRATCH IF YOU DO!
>>saving me one step out of several hundred, but when I did
>> this originally Windows got confused by what drivers were where - while
>> swapping drivers floppies etc. - because I installed two things at once
>> without rebooting in between. Perhaps I made a mistake somewhere, but I
>> just didn't want to waste time with more experiments.
>
>You have no idea what im talking about, or what youre talking about. Again,
>you're saying that you have no experience with sort of thing (and also seem
>to have a willingness to learn) and then you turn around and fight with
>people who actually know what theyre talking about. No wonder youre so
>unhappy with this whole thing. I doubt youd be happy with a freakin toaster.
One doesn't re-install Windows on a Gateway 2600 without getting experience
with that specific task. When that knowledge conflicts with your generic
knowledge of this "sort of thing", you would be wise to bow to the expertise
of the one with the particular experience.
One of my pet peeves with One Microsoft Way is how it convinces people that
they know how computers work because they think they know how Windows works.
Nothing personal, pook, but the value of having "installed Windows on hundreds
of PCs" isn't really a lot when it comes to knowing what you're talking about.
>> Even installing them separately gets Windows confused about where the
>> drivers are, which you can see with a bunch of error messages that must
>> be ignored and the correct driver location provided multiple times.
>
>Because you dont know what youre doing. Stop pretending that you do.
No, you don't know what you're talking about. Call Gateway. And believe me,
NOBODY grills a tech support jockey like I do; much of this procedure *sounds*
like voodoo, I know. But that's the point, dammit.
>You should have done more thinking and more research before you bought
>the machine in the firstplace. Your current situation is due completely
>to your own ignorance.
When all else fails, blame the guy for having the problem. Typically MS
quackery. This is the kind of bullshit that enables MS to do such a piss-poor
job for so much money and still blame all the problems on somebody else.
The only reason this issue is Gateway's fault is because they signed the damn
per-processor agreements so they could make money selling PCs to begin with.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:40:00 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting 5X3 from alt.destroy.microsoft; 13 Mar 2000 18:27:31 GMT
[...]
>I have the same model gateway (well, the equivalent, its only about a
>year old) with all the fixins sitting at home on top of my stereo serving
>up MP3s. I had exactly zero problems installing windows on it (98
>and 2000). Everything was detected instantly.
These two statements are contradictory.
>Now dont get me wrong, I really hate windows. Hate. With a big "H".
>
>But I do actually use windows for menial tasks--playing games and
>displaying cool visualization plug ins for mp3 players in my livingroom.
>Linux would certianly be overkill.
The last statement simply doesn't make any sense.
>
>> My point is that it takes me almost 2 hours of intensely interactive
>> time to reinstall the OS, and that I do not consider it easy and
>> intuitive.
>
>Even on my most "difficult" machine (pentium III, 3 IDE drives, two
>ethernet cards, aureal vortex2 sound, nvidia TNT2 video, 2 USB devices,
>etc.) windows98 is about an hour and a half install, but most of that
>is waiting for stuff to be pulled off the CD. Its simply not all that
>difficult.
Thanks for your data point. Installing Linux isn't all that difficult,
either. Get it?
>> The steps were documented in detail for my own benefit
>> because there are a number of "gotcha's" along the way, such as
>> accidentally clicking "Close" instead of "Apply" after installing the
>> video drivers -- the former will lock up the machine unrecoverably.
>
>Never happened that way on my gateway.
Bully for you.
>> Installing OS's is not my profession, not something I do every day, so
>> yes I do need a kind of "idiots-guide-to-setting-up-an-OS".
>
>Then listen to people who have more experience than you.
Better yet, listen to people who have even more experience than they do.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:40:05 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting Drestin Black from alt.destroy.microsoft; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:43:26
-0500
>
>"Norman D. Megill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8aivvo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >"Norman D. Megill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:8ah2mk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>> My point is that it takes me almost 2 hours of intensely interactive
>> time to reinstall the OS, and that I do not consider it easy and
>> intuitive. The steps were documented in detail for my own benefit
>> because there are a number of "gotcha's" along the way, such as
>> accidentally clicking "Close" instead of "Apply" after installing the
>> video drivers -- the former will lock up the machine unrecoverably.
>>
>
>I have never EVER heard of a scenario where that is true...
>
>Please, reply with full details and let's see where the problem is.
The problem is people say "reply with full details and let's see where the
problem is." We KNOW where the problem is; the pre-load market.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:40:15 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting Roger from alt.destroy.microsoft; Wed, 15 Mar 2000 02:36:30 GMT
>On 14 Mar 2000 04:49:58 -0500, someone claiming to be Norman D. Megill
>wrote:
>
>>See step 18 in my repost of the procedure. I personally experienced
>>this problem, and in addition it was confirmed by Gateway. The symptom
>>is rather eerie - the screen turns a yellowish-brown that fades to black
>>at the bottom, and over a period of a several seconds the yellow region
>>fades to black.
>>
>> Apply (Display Properties) (WARNING: DO NOT PRESS 'CLOSE' HERE
>> BECAUSE DISPLAY WILL DISAPPEAR, THE COMPUTER WILL LOCK UP
>> PERMANENTLY EVEN IF YOU TRY TO REBOOT, AND YOU'LL HAVE TO
>> REFORMAT DISK AND START OVER
>>
>>Now, to be honest I do not know if you *really* have to reformat and
>>start over - perhaps something could be recovered in Safe mode - but
>>life is short and I have better things to do with my time than
>>experiment with MS bugs.
>
>You misspelled "bugs in the NeoMagic MagicGraph 128XD driver," since
>it is the only driver I have ever run across / heard about with this
>problem.
And here we are, come full circle to "No, Roger, he spelled 'MS bugs'
correctly." If they're going to be the whole computer, they get to take
responsibility for the whole computer.
>That being the case, it is likely in the extreme that starting in Safe
>Mode would allow you to correct this problem -- exactly as it is
>designed to do.
Yes; it would allow you to recover to the point where you can reformat the
drive and re-install from scratch again because if you screw up the "magic
steps" in this Gateway laptop install, that is your ONLY option.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:40:32 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting Norman D. Megill from alt.destroy.microsoft; 16 Mar 2000 11:27:16
[...]
>I'll grant you that I don't know whose "issue" it is. But there are
>very serious, major bugs in MS software that are very rare and only
>experienced by a few people.
In an effort to dampen the trolling frenzy you've unleashed, allow me to point
out that a bug that is very rare and only experienced by a few people cannot,
by definition, be a very serious, major bug. It can be a major, serious
indication of a crappy product, but that's about it.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:40:59 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting doc rogers from alt.destroy.microsoft; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 11:32:25 -0500
>The main thing I'm getting from all of this is:
>
>Don't buy Gateway.
>
>--doc
No, as many have correctly pointed out amidst many incorrect trollish
statements, the majority of Gateways don't have such extensive problems; most
PCs are quite a bit easier to deal with and Gateway *usually* does a good job
of integration, AFAIK. I would not necessarily recommend their laptops, but I
wouldn't want to say that all their systems suck. After all, the only thing
that all PCs that have these kinds of problems have in common is Windows. It
would make more sense to avoid buying Windows, but that's often outside of our
control, isn't it?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:41:40 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting doc rogers from alt.destroy.microsoft; Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:31:20 -0500
>Norman D. Megill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8agt9p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> Well, "doc", obviously you don't know what you are talking about,
>> because it is *precisely* the procedure (show me what's wrong with it -
>> you can't, because it works, and each step is necessary).
>
>That's ridiculous.
>
>I don't have your document in front of me at the moment, but lots of it
>wasn't necessary, and there were all kinds of judgmental statements in it
>that definitely wouldn't be in a Gateway publication.
>
>The general procedure (details differ slightly depending on the Windows
>version . . . for instance, Win2K requires 4 boot floppies) on an empty
>machine, or one in which you are reinstalling Windows over a previous
>installation is:
>
>1. Stick in a boot floppy (if you can't boot from CD-ROM; if you can, it's
>even easier)
>2. Choose "start with CD-ROM support"
>3. At the prompt, enter you CD drive letter
>4. Type the word "setup"
>5. Stick in another floppy when Windows tells you to.
>6. Hit Enter/Click okay a bunch of times when Windows tells you to.
>7. Make a cup of coffee. Keep hitting enter/clicking okay
>8. Reboot.
>
>That's it.
[...]
>unless you have some weird hardware[...]
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: 20 Mar 2000 14:57:07 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quoting 5X3 from alt.destroy.microsoft; 13 Mar 2000 18:27:31 GMT
> [...]
>>I have the same model gateway (well, the equivalent, its only about a
>>year old) with all the fixins sitting at home on top of my stereo serving
>>up MP3s. I had exactly zero problems installing windows on it (98
>>and 2000). Everything was detected instantly.
> These two statements are contradictory.
No, they arent.
>>Now dont get me wrong, I really hate windows. Hate. With a big "H".
>>
>>But I do actually use windows for menial tasks--playing games and
>>displaying cool visualization plug ins for mp3 players in my livingroom.
>>Linux would certianly be overkill.
> The last statement simply doesn't make any sense.
>>
Yes, it does.
>>> My point is that it takes me almost 2 hours of intensely interactive
>>> time to reinstall the OS, and that I do not consider it easy and
>>> intuitive.
>>
>>Even on my most "difficult" machine (pentium III, 3 IDE drives, two
>>ethernet cards, aureal vortex2 sound, nvidia TNT2 video, 2 USB devices,
>>etc.) windows98 is about an hour and a half install, but most of that
>>is waiting for stuff to be pulled off the CD. Its simply not all that
>>difficult.
> Thanks for your data point. Installing Linux isn't all that difficult,
> either. Get it?
You really have no idea what hes advocating do you?
>>> The steps were documented in detail for my own benefit
>>> because there are a number of "gotcha's" along the way, such as
>>> accidentally clicking "Close" instead of "Apply" after installing the
>>> video drivers -- the former will lock up the machine unrecoverably.
>>
>>Never happened that way on my gateway.
> Bully for you.
I'll admit that for the above to be the case, it does take a couple of
active brain cells.
>>> Installing OS's is not my profession, not something I do every day, so
>>> yes I do need a kind of "idiots-guide-to-setting-up-an-OS".
>>
>>Then listen to people who have more experience than you.
> Better yet, listen to people who have even more experience than they do.
You'd be well advised to do so, sir.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: 20 Mar 2000 14:58:21 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quoting Drestin Black from alt.destroy.microsoft; Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:43:26
> -0500
>>
>>"Norman D. Megill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:8aivvo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>> Drestin Black <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >"Norman D. Megill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>> >news:8ah2mk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>>
>>> My point is that it takes me almost 2 hours of intensely interactive
>>> time to reinstall the OS, and that I do not consider it easy and
>>> intuitive. The steps were documented in detail for my own benefit
>>> because there are a number of "gotcha's" along the way, such as
>>> accidentally clicking "Close" instead of "Apply" after installing the
>>> video drivers -- the former will lock up the machine unrecoverably.
>>>
>>
>>I have never EVER heard of a scenario where that is true...
>>
>>Please, reply with full details and let's see where the problem is.
> The problem is people say "reply with full details and let's see where the
> problem is." We KNOW where the problem is; the pre-load market.
Please stop arguing on the side of linux. You're making the rest of us
look very foolish.
Thank you.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED],net
Subject: Re: Linux (was Linux s****)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:03:06 GMT
I stand corrected. It was NOT there last time I looked 2 weeks ago.
Also it is a beta version and there is no RealJukebox nor any Real
Player plus for Linux and it is for RedHat only.
Partnering means nothing until some evidence is shown. Corel has
"partnered with Creative to create multimedia "stuff" and still, as of
2 weeks ago anyway, there is no deb for the sblive driver on their
website.
Steve
P.S. I changed the subject.
On Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:01:55 -0600, "Bill Sharrock"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <net> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
><snip>
>
>> RealPlayer...
>> Has Linux gotten past G2 yet? Is it still buried under "non-supported"
>> on the web page?
>>
>
>Under Select OS for the free RealPlayer 7 download they have RH6.0 listed in
>RPM and non-RPM format. Listed as Beta but that should change shortly.
>
>I guess you didn't know that RH has partnered up with Real to get RealPlayer
>onto linux.
>
><snip>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED],net
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A pox on the penguin? (Linux Virus Epidemic)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 15:05:53 GMT
On 20 Mar 2000 15:52:28 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry
Porter) wrote:
>There are some who believe the same about Unix, and Linux, Steve for instance.
>We tolerate him, cause he's grist for our mill, lets see you provide some
>input other than a lofty position of critisism ?
Ha ha! you made my day Terry :)
>Thanks for the veiled insult George, but it doesnt bother me, I'm used
>to trolls like yourself and "Steve".
You seem to have a fixation on me Terry...
>Personal sleights are the Wintroll defence #2. Keep up the good work.
Sometimes, but you seem to aggravate everyone.
>
>Kind Regards
>Terry
Steve
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