Linux-Advocacy Digest #783, Volume #25 Thu, 23 Mar 00 21:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Weak points ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Weak points (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1]
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: joys of command-line image manipulation ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why Linux on the desktop? (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: Weak points ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1] (JEDIDIAH)
Re: joys of command-line image manipulation ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Weak points
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:01:37 GMT
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:24:04 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:30:29 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:58:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:31:23 GMT, Itchy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>>>On 24 Mar 2000 06:07:36 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry
>>>>Porter) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:50:48 GMT, SetMeUp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>Well well well, a new wintroll or a old wintroll in discuise.
>>>[deletia]
>>>>There is nothing wrong with PS printers except the price. Why pay 3x
>>>>or more the going rate for a normal printer for one? You could walk
>>>
>>> This is a red herring. There are plenty of reasonably priced
>>> PCL printers to go around. This 'only PS printers' mantra is
>>> a bald faced lie that's constantly being disputed.
>>
>>And yet no proof is ever given to dispute it except one post
>>concerning some out of date PS printer from Lexmark that some Lino
>>supporter found at a fire sale.
>
> The HP 8100N comes to mind. It's a current, quite nice PCL
> printer that can actually be used for a small office effectively.
I am not talking about a small office, I am talking about a home.
> There is a $300 Brother PCL laser printer that you can get in
> most of the chain office stores. HP sells ~$100 PCL deskjets.
Where are these? I have never seen a $100 Hp printer that was 100
percent, non Windows emulation PCL compatible?
BTW HP printers are the bane of folks doing digital audio. The drivers
tend to interfere with MIDI and Sound, at least in CakeWalk and
Cubase.
> Now, as long as you can get cartriges (and I have a 6 year old
> color deskjet that I still get carts for at CompUSA), whether or
> not the printer is 'obsolete' is quite immaterial.
You already have one.
I have a $99 printer that functions quite nicely under Windows and is
mostly an anchor under Linux.
Many others, your new "supposed" market of Windows converts are in the
same boat.
An extra $200 buys a nice sound card, monitor,memory,scanner etc. Why
waste it on a printer just to run Linux?
> You are pushing that "new for newness' sake fallacy".
No I am talking about a $99.0 printer that for all practical purposes
in a home environment prints as good as a $600 PS printer.
> All it takes is informed shopping.
Nope. All it takes is the printer that was included with my computer
that prints fine saving me a couple of hundred extra dollars I can put
to use elsewhere.
> You are essentially arguing AGAINST informed shopping. This
> is hardly productive for the market or product quality in
> general, not just computing.
That's funny coming from a linvocate who expects everything to be open
source and free.
Let me get this straight.
You are against a $99 printer that functions under other OS's, but you
are willing to spend hundreds more on a CURRENT Linux printer yet you
scream at Windows $89.00 price tag....
Makes no sense to me...
You must have other motives.
>>
>>
>>>>into CompUSA and pick any printer with a blindfold on and chances are
>>>>it would work up to it's full potential under Windows. Same can't be
>>>>said for Linux.
>>>
>>> The same can't be said of MacOS or NT4 either. Plus, with PC
>>> hardware you always run the risk of buying a total piece of
>>> crap if you're totally ignorant.
>>
>>I'm not talking about Mac or NT I am talking about Windows (98) vs
>>Linux.....
>
> Windows 98 is crap. There are compelling reasons NOT to use it.
> No one should be subjected to it in the 21st century. I would
> and do plead with those that simply must run some appfoo for
> Windows to at least use NT. It's reasonably robust.
You are trying to change the subject again jedi, much like you tried
to with George and the spreadsheet discussion.
Is this your standard technique?
>>
>>> 'blindfold buying' simply isn't in anyone's best interest,
>>> even a novices. Sure you can hobble along. However, that's
>>> no better than dealing with a printer that's 'kinda supported'
>>> or not at all in some AltOS.
>>
>>
>>The only place we hobble along is under Linux. We use half the
>>features of our hardware under Linux. Under Windows we can exploit and
>>utilize everything we paid for in a much more user friendly fashion.
>
> Then you're an idiot that can't shop for technological devices.
> I fully exploit all of my hardware. That includes the printer,
> scanner, SCSI U2 card, cdrom burner, video capture card, USB hub,
> mouse and keyboard and 3D accerated video card & 19" monitor.
Sure you do jedi..
We believe you.....
> A SoundBlaster Live will likely be added to that list once
> Heavy Gear II hits the local EB.
Yawn.......
Just in time for the new version to be released.
I'm sure vienna soundfont manager will be included in that Linux
release?
SBLive support under Linux is half a wet dream.
Steve
>>
>> Non PS printers are only "kinda supported" under Linux..Under Windows
>>they work, plain and simple. All features work right out of the box.
>>All the features I paid for not to mention all the great software that
>>comes with them like Canon Creative and so forth.
>>
>>Toss that CD in the garbage under Linux.
>
> ...yeah, those multiple trays on your $100 winprinter...
> ...yeah, sure...
>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>Why do you call everybody who does not wave the Linux flag a troll?
>>>>He made some good, and valid points.
>>>>Take off the blinders Terry.
>>>
>>> No he didn't.
>>>
>>> Anyone that willfully repeats the 'only PS printers' mantra
>>> is not just a troll by a LIAR as well.
>>
>>I suggest you take a look at Redhat's printer list in control panel,
>>or SuSE's for that matter. While you are at it you can take a look at
>>the list of monitors under Redhat Suse is much better in this regard.
>>Talk about bringing back memories.
>
> I've never had monitor problems under Linux. Infact, one of
> the top motivators for dumping Win9x was hwo it so poorly
> handles monitors it's not expecting.
>
>>
>>Now when you can tell me that the few, non dot matrix printers listed
>>(Canon 4000 for example, they are only 5 printers in the past on that
>>one) work as well or better under Linux, supporting all the features
>>that are availible under Windows, then I will listen.
>>
>>And BTW don't try and dodge the issue by saying "how many people use
>>those features" like you tried with George in the spreadsheat thread.
>
> Printers are not quite the vendor-lock 'must buy the piece of
> shit office suite because assholes like you insist on forcing
> its datafiles on everyone' sort of thing that a spreadsheet is.
>
> Demand there is a bit more elastic in the absense of really
> oppressive network effects.
>
>>
>>You really went down the drain on that one.........
>>
>>Siag/Gnumeric vs Excel
>>bwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
>>
>>You really must be kidding.
>
> Depends on what you use. If external data pipes are your thing,
> SIAG makes msword blow bloody chunks all over the place.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Weak points
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:03:40 GMT
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:26:19 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:06:17 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:32:43 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>I don't think anybody would really argue that point. Same goes for
>>>multimedia/digital audio/video.
>>>
>>>Problem is Windows/Mac have all the toys NOW and Linux has a bunch of
>>>promises.
>>
>> They don't have ALL of the toys, and Linux isn't merely limited
>> to promises. You can go into Electronics Boutique TODAY and buy
>> product. Proven industry vendors have released product and will
>> continue releasing product.
>>
>> Linux Games are well past the vaporware stage.
>>
>> The existence of this parsec beta rather demonstrates that.
>> You're just too much of a hypocrite to acknowledge it.
>
>And where may I ask are the programs that compare to:
>
>SoundForge
>Cubase
>CakeWalk
>CoolEdit
>Waves Native PowerPack
>GiGa Sampler
>and I could go on for 10 pages or so...
Those of us that aren't musicians really don't care for your
'well its null because it doesn't have a good sequencer'
gibberish. A sequencer doesn't make or break a platform.
Atari proved that.
Nevermind that you're changing the subject to suit the
arguement, one that you're losing.
>Hell Linux doesn't even support MIDI interfaces like the 8-Port SE.
>How about the sound cards to use the above?
>
>Oh, I guess you'll fire up your trusty SB-16 complete with a SNR of
>60db (un weighted of course) or so.
>
>I have not even touched on video, GOD help us.
You mean things like Houdini, Maya batch render or Blender?
If I wanted a better S/N ratio, the Live claims 96db.
>
>How about DVD, worried about those open specs I guess. You should be,
>The Windows users have no worry because the card manufacturers will
>pay for the spec and it will be out in the market place pronto.
>
>
>So who is the liar jedi?
>
>You are......
You've brought up a monopolized hardware spec and a
class of vertical app. That's hardly an effective
rebuttal. Furthermore, DVD hardware decoders and
software decoders are progressing despite being
actively thwarted by pending litigation.
>
>Give me a break already....You try and try and try and try again to
>twist an agrement to show Linux as superior and you lose almost every
>time.
BTW, I can play a DVD (encrypted or not) if I really want to NOW.
The mpeg codecs could sorely use some optimization however.
>
>
>George gets you on the programming stuff, and I on the multimedia
>stuff.
>
>How about starting up your discussion of MP3's and how nobody can tell
>the difference...
>
>Linux is better off without you as an advocate.....
Hardly.
You've established that Linux can't do DVD and professional
music. That leaves those that simply must use their PC as
a $250 DVD player or musicians out in the cold.
That also implies that anyone else could be reasonably well
suited by Linux (or BeOS, it's subject to the same DVD limit).
Meanwhile, I'll keep on ripping and reburning my mp3's, video
overlay,3D accerated games, games with enviromental audio,
scanning, using USB peripherals, fully exploiting my color
deskjet and getting effective use out of Linux office apps.
You and the rest of the DVD playing whiney musicians can go
do their sour grapes thing in the corner...
An 8 port MIDI card is about as relevant to most users as
a 64 node Beowulf cluster being in the top 500 of
supercomputers.
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:15:32 -0600, Codifex Maximus
>>>>
>>>>For an impressive demo, try PARSEC. It is an excellent peek at what
>>>>Linux can do... I'd say Linux is an excellent gaming platform too!
>>>
>>>
>
--
So long as Apple uses Quicktime to effectively |||
make web based video 'Windows only' Club, / | \
Apple is no less monopolistic than Microsoft.
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:09:07 GMT
Jedi likes to talk free until it comes to spending major bucks
upgrading, or really downgrading, one's system for the joy of running
Linux.
I have a stack of printouts, web pages and books that is approaching 5
ft high all devoted to running and configuring Linux and I am not
talking about CLI stuff, I am talking about getting a
soundcard/network card/wheelmouse/modem and so forth working.
Making font's look reasonable so my eyes don't tear.
Speaking of fonts Nick Petretly (InfoWorld) has a write up on Xfree
4.0. At least he tells it like it is, a PIA.
www.infoworld.com and ya gotta find it yourself cause my comp copy is
snail mail.
I have been all over the net looking for solutions to "problems" that
are not problems under Windows but are under Linux.
I have wasted weeks doing this stuff and for what? To run second rate
programs even if they are free?
How many Windows books do I have?
I have a total of one. An ancient Petzold book which was autographed
by him.
Steve
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:38:03 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(George Richard Russell) wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:06:41 GMT, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:11:22 GMT, SetMeUp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> Besides, for the price of an NT5 licence you can replace the
>>>> mouse and the printer and still have money left over for self
>>>> help guides or pizza.
>>>
>>> Well, may be the telephone cost of browsing to be able to
>>>get, configure and test Linux software let you buy Windows 2000
>>>and several software packages.
>>
>> You are quite out of touch with reality.
>
>Depends where in reality you are. European phone costs are extortionate, and
>ISP's (decent ones, anyway) tend not to be free (www.uklinux.net is!).
>
>And for Students, Educators and the untroubled warez doodz, NT is cheap.
>You can get Win9* && NT && Office && Visual* (C++ and J++ i think) for about
>£40 UK. (£10 for warez doodz). Educational use only, though.
>
>Equivalent functionality, under Linux, is just as expensive (SuSE's Linux
>Office 99, Corel Linux Deluxe, Redhat + Applixware)
>
>George Russell
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: joys of command-line image manipulation
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:04:14 GMT
Last year, the company I used to work for had a domain name change. The
environment was mixed UNIX/NT, MSExchange and sendmail. It took me
about ten minutes to get all my UNIX boxes updated with a small script
(I might have been able to do it faster, but I had to re-read one of the
manpages first).
The Exchange side was very different. We had a team of six people
pointing and clicking and typing for about five hours to do the same
thing that took me ten minutes. I ended up doing about 150 of them
myself since I had finished my original task.
There might have been a better way to tackle the Exchange side of the
problem, but if there was, none of our MCSEs knew how.
Shell scripts are indeed a beautiful thing, aren't they?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Linux on the desktop?
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:12:04 GMT
In article <IPiC4.3323$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Jim Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Microsoft has made progress with DLL hell. Apearantly, at the cost
of memory and CPU cycles. The general attitude is that cycles are
cheap, ram is cheap, and hard drives are really cheap.
This will probably mean that corporations will go into another
"feeding frenzy", trying to get Windows 2000 compatible boxes -
because the cost of having a contractor do the hardware upgrades
during a "Windows Release Rush" is higher than the cost of replacing
the entire PC.
One thing I do wish Microsoft would adopt would be the concept of
a HOME directory. Every application would default to this directory
for storage of information. The user could then choose which
subdirectory to use. I use a home directory but I hate trying to
navigate through 6 layers of application hierarchy, then 4 layers
of profile hierarchy just to get to my desktop. The concept of the
briefcase is nice, but I'd rather have it be a shortcut to a folder
off the root directory.
Backup of any Windows system is an adventure. I have a CD-ROM burner
and with compression I can get about 1 gig per disk. The problem is
that there is no way to be sure that the restoration will work
properly. Typically, I end up with a bad registry, lost system files,
and/or lost user information.
Microsoft backup doesn't recognise CD-ROM burners as permissable
back-up media.
I tried DriveImage but it requires that you use the MS-DOS drivers,
a bit difficult when you've only installed NT.
I thought I'd try Ghost, but it's really hard to find. I'm not
really interested in buying yet another $100 "back-up package that
doesn't back-up".
I'd like to try win2K on my own machine (I've observed others and
have been both impressed and amused). I have a Thinkpad 600 and
I have a machine with Windows 95 on it (along with my uses up to
last month). I finally had to get another drive and install NT
because Windows 95 was tanking every 2 hours. I'm sure it was just
DLL hell, but it just reached the point where I didn't want to
deal with it anymore. Unfortunately, I need the backup information
and there are some drivers I can't get for NT.
By the way, both drives also need to be able to dual-boot Linux
systems as well. I'd really hate it if Windows 2000 trashed my
Linux installation.
> > Fewer "black boxes"
> > One of the frustrating phenomenon in the Windows world is when
> > one black box interferes with another - usually different DLLs
> > that are loaded based on which application is started first.
> > Generally the strategy for correcting this is the "4 Rs".
> > Restart the application
> > Reboot the system.
> > Reinstall the application
> > Reformate the hard drive and rebuild the system.
> > Often the problem is that a service pack applied to MS-Office
> > will alter a DLL used by Lotus Notes. Lotus notes will then
> > "fix" the problem with a service pack that puts the old DLL
> > in a Lotus directory and specifically loads that DLL. Now,
> > If you start Word before starting Notes, Notes breaks. If
> > you start Notes before starting Word, word breaks. Of course,
> > since the crash usuall happens during race conditions
> > or deadlocks, it may be hours before the destructive
> > code is reached.
> >
>
> It looks like Windows 2000 may have this one finally under control.
They have reduced the number of crashes due to race conditions
and deadlocks by using apartment threading and MTS. MTS is a good
thing, but calling it a "Transaction Service" is misleading it
leads people to think it's the same as Tuxedo, Encina, or CICS,
but it isn't. I prefer their use of the term "Fabric".
> Not being more open,
Never has been one of Microsoft's strong points.
This is probably the biggest issues remaining.
> but dealing better with DLL conflicts.
Better, but not "Cured".
> Time will tell
> Jim
>
>
--
Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
I/T Architect, MIS Director
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 60 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 1%/week!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Weak points
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:16:47 GMT
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:03:40 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
wrote:
>On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:26:19 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:06:17 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 23:32:43 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>I don't think anybody would really argue that point. Same goes for
>>>>multimedia/digital audio/video.
>>>>
>>>>Problem is Windows/Mac have all the toys NOW and Linux has a bunch of
>>>>promises.
>>>
>>> They don't have ALL of the toys, and Linux isn't merely limited
>>> to promises. You can go into Electronics Boutique TODAY and buy
>>> product. Proven industry vendors have released product and will
>>> continue releasing product.
>>>
>>> Linux Games are well past the vaporware stage.
>>>
>>> The existence of this parsec beta rather demonstrates that.
>>> You're just too much of a hypocrite to acknowledge it.
>>
>>And where may I ask are the programs that compare to:
>>
>>SoundForge
>>Cubase
>>CakeWalk
>>CoolEdit
>>Waves Native PowerPack
>>GiGa Sampler
>>and I could go on for 10 pages or so...
>
> Those of us that aren't musicians really don't care for your
> 'well its null because it doesn't have a good sequencer'
> gibberish. A sequencer doesn't make or break a platform.
> Atari proved that.
Yawn........... How about mp3 programs that work with every soundcard
on the market and are easy to use?
So tell me how mp3's are not popular.......
Been on any college campus's lately?
> Nevermind that you're changing the subject to suit the
> arguement, one that you're losing.
You lost it a long time ago. Much like every other argument you you
get into.
Stick to compilers and editors and you might fair a little better.
>>Hell Linux doesn't even support MIDI interfaces like the 8-Port SE.
>>How about the sound cards to use the above?
>>
>>Oh, I guess you'll fire up your trusty SB-16 complete with a SNR of
>>60db (un weighted of course) or so.
>>
>>I have not even touched on video, GOD help us.
>
> You mean things like Houdini, Maya batch render or Blender?
Yawwn...... Toys......all toys.....
Tell me the Titanic story daddy.....
> If I wanted a better S/N ratio, the Live claims 96db.
And the Linux driver will give you about 1/3 of it's features.....
>>
>>How about DVD, worried about those open specs I guess. You should be,
>>The Windows users have no worry because the card manufacturers will
>>pay for the spec and it will be out in the market place pronto.
>>
>>
>>So who is the liar jedi?
>>
>>You are......
>
> You've brought up a monopolized hardware spec and a
> class of vertical app. That's hardly an effective
> rebuttal. Furthermore, DVD hardware decoders and
> software decoders are progressing despite being
> actively thwarted by pending litigation.
Nope. I have brought up things that are easily availible under Windows
and there are multiple choices both commercial and shareware. You on
the other hand have slanted toward your typical "everybody is out to
get Linux" argument.
You should try and argue a point you know something about and that is
Linux friendly, try editors or Kernel compilation or libraries for
example.
>>
>>Give me a break already....You try and try and try and try again to
>>twist an agrement to show Linux as superior and you lose almost every
>>time.
>
> BTW, I can play a DVD (encrypted or not) if I really want to NOW.
> The mpeg codecs could sorely use some optimization however.
We all can :)
And hopefully we ALL will be able to in the future :(
Steve
>>
>>
>>George gets you on the programming stuff, and I on the multimedia
>>stuff.
>>
>>How about starting up your discussion of MP3's and how nobody can tell
>>the difference...
>>
>>Linux is better off without you as an advocate.....
>
> Hardly.
>
> You've established that Linux can't do DVD and professional
> music. That leaves those that simply must use their PC as
> a $250 DVD player or musicians out in the cold.
>
> That also implies that anyone else could be reasonably well
> suited by Linux (or BeOS, it's subject to the same DVD limit).
>
> Meanwhile, I'll keep on ripping and reburning my mp3's, video
> overlay,3D accerated games, games with enviromental audio,
> scanning, using USB peripherals, fully exploiting my color
> deskjet and getting effective use out of Linux office apps.
>
> You and the rest of the DVD playing whiney musicians can go
> do their sour grapes thing in the corner...
>
> An 8 port MIDI card is about as relevant to most users as
> a 64 node Beowulf cluster being in the top 500 of
> supercomputers.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:15:32 -0600, Codifex Maximus
>>>>>
>>>>>For an impressive demo, try PARSEC. It is an excellent peek at what
>>>>>Linux can do... I'd say Linux is an excellent gaming platform too!
>>>>
>>>>
>>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1]
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:08:50 GMT
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 00:38:03 GMT, George Richard Russell
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 22:06:41 GMT, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Thu, 23 Mar 2000 21:11:22 GMT, SetMeUp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> Besides, for the price of an NT5 licence you can replace the
>>>> mouse and the printer and still have money left over for self
>>>> help guides or pizza.
>>>
>>> Well, may be the telephone cost of browsing to be able to
>>>get, configure and test Linux software let you buy Windows 2000
>>>and several software packages.
>>
>> You are quite out of touch with reality.
>
>Depends where in reality you are. European phone costs are extortionate, and
>ISP's (decent ones, anyway) tend not to be free (www.uklinux.net is!).
>
>And for Students, Educators and the untroubled warez doodz, NT is cheap.
>You can get Win9* && NT && Office && Visual* (C++ and J++ i think) for about
>£40 UK. (£10 for warez doodz). Educational use only, though.
>
>Equivalent functionality, under Linux, is just as expensive (SuSE's Linux
>Office 99, Corel Linux Deluxe, Redhat + Applixware)
As I said. You're out of touch with reality. You can get Suse
and StarOffice and personal WP8 or free from anyone that has a
$100 CDROM burner.
[deletia]
If you were really bright, you would have brought up the fact
that the Win32 version of StarOffice 5.1 is also free and is
on the 5.1 CD.
(I have a $100 CDROM burner too)
Mind you, none of this Linux/StarOffice stuff requires whatever
it might take to get yourself access to the student rate.
--
So long as Apple uses Quicktime to try and make |||
web based video 'Windows only' Club, Apple is no / | \
less monopolistic than Microsoft.
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: joys of command-line image manipulation
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:19:27 GMT
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 01:04:14 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Shell scripts are indeed a beautiful thing, aren't they?
Personally I prefer Sarah Michelle Gellar (Buffy) but that's MY
opinion.
Shell scripts rank near the bottom of MY excitement ladder.
Steve
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
------------------------------
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