Linux-Advocacy Digest #797, Volume #25 Fri, 24 Mar 00 20:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again) (Marty)
Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again) (Marty)
Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again) (Marty)
Dish Network's site is DOWN if you don't use M$'s browser. (Randy Crawford)
Re: M$ did come aboard UNIX camp... (BSD Bob)
Re: UNIX recruiters and MS Word resumes (BSD Bob)
Re: Bsd and Linux ("John W. Stevens")
Re: Bsd and Linux ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: Bsd and Linux ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: I don't want to stir up any concerns... ("Dirk Gently")
Re: Bsd and Linux ("John W. Stevens")
Re: I don't want to stir up any concerns... ("Dirk Gently")
Re: Dish Network's site is DOWN if you don't use M$'s browser. (Stefan Ohlsson)
Winvocates getting you fired up? ("Craig H. Block")
Re: Absolute failure of Linux dead ahead? (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again) (josco)
Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1] (John
Loukidelis)
Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1] (John
Loukidelis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:10:49 GMT
Jason Bowen wrote:
>
> O.K., lets change the subject then. What do you think these numbers mean
> for OS/2?
Have you noted how, even after he himself settled the issue by stating his
source, he still refers to the source of the numbers as "an issue" to avoid
answering your question. Interesting "style", eh?
--
The wit of Bob Osborn in action:
"Perhaps it something you should try to your kids don't end up as stupid as
you."
"There is an old saying fartface."
"Not only are you a filthy low-life lying bastard pig, you are too stupid to
know it."
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:13:59 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >> A PS/2 didn't need PS/2 hardware???
>
> > Typo -- OS/2 didn't need PS/2 to run on.
>
> I know that, but a lot of people didn't.
Prove it, if you think you can.
--
The wit of Bob Osborn in action:
"Perhaps it something you should try to your kids don't end up as stupid as
you."
"There is an old saying fartface."
"Not only are you a filthy low-life lying bastard pig, you are too stupid to
know it."
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:17:26 GMT
George Marengo wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 20:52:57 GMT, "Mike Ruskai"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >What you were always after was nothing more or less than something you
> >could count on to run for at least a few hours, and run all the gimmick
> >software that you could find.
>
> OS/2 simply didn't have the software selection that I was looking for,
> and I knowingly traded off stability for application availability.
WinOS/2 support was nothing to sneeze at, even in the 2.1 days. Which kinds
of apps did you find you couldn't run in OS/2?
--
The wit of Bob Osborn in action:
"Perhaps it something you should try to your kids don't end up as stupid as
you."
"There is an old saying fartface."
"Not only are you a filthy low-life lying bastard pig, you are too stupid to
know it."
------------------------------
From: Randy Crawford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
rec.video.satellite.dbs,alt.satellite.tv,rec.video.satellite.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.infosystems.www.browsers.x,comp.infosystems.www.browsers,comp.infosystems.www.browswers.misc
Subject: Dish Network's site is DOWN if you don't use M$'s browser.
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 23:33:49 +0000
Simply amazing.
I just tried to visit http://www.dishnetwork.com, but every
time it crashed Netscape within visiting one, or at most two
links off the main page. (I'm running Linux Redhat 6.0,
Netscape 4.61, and I'm no newbie to Living Without Windows.)
On the main page DN states that they DO NOT SUPPORT Netscape.
Period. If you want to visit their site, "You should download
Internet Explorer". They claim that it's Netscape's problem
that their site crashes and burns and there's nothing they can
do about it.
UNbelievable. So much for selling Dish Network systems to
all the AOL subscribers (who use Netscape).
I bought a Dish Network system about a year ago. I *had*
planned on renewing my subscription, and I wanted to see what
their current services and hardware looked like.
But I've changed my mind. If any vendor has the hubris to state
that they won't serve me unless I CHANGE OPERATING SYSTEMS, or
that they're unable to master the trivial technology of creating
web pages that work with more than ONE browser, they clearly don't
care if they lose millions of potential customers. And of course,
they're incompetent idiots.
Is Dish Network this clueless on other topics? I find this
attitude to be incredibly self serving and short sighted. Do
their stockholders know this? Does *Rupert Murdoch* know this?
So... Anybody want to buy a Dish Network system? I'm switching to
Direct TV.
Randy
--
Randy Crawford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.engin.umich.edu/labs/cpc
------------------------------
From: BSD Bob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: M$ did come aboard UNIX camp...
Date: 23 Mar 2000 15:44:08 GMT
Mathias Grimmberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JoeX1029) writes:
>> M$ is aboard the UNIX camp. A number of years they created a UNIX like OS
>> called XENIX. But it no doubt sucks just as bad as win.
> MS didn't create it from scratch.
It was an AT&T port to the 68K processors, too. A bit later they had
the 386 ports, if memory is correct.
> The "Magic Garden" book says it was a descendant of AT&T System III.
> Some of the features in XENIX/386 made it to SVR4.0. I have seen it: can
> you imagine the shock of logging in to a Sinix box (Siemens' flavour of
> SVR4) and seeing it say something like "Copyright 19WX-19YZ Microsoft"?
> ;-)
That is a new version. The one I have is 1.01 or something like that
for 68K processors, but dating from around 1980. It was written for
the Trash80 Model 16 with 68K boards, one or two 8 inch floppers,
and one or two 8M hard drives. Vague memory suggests it was almost
a straight V7 port, but I don't remember much more than that, since
it has been almost 20 years since I last ran it. We thought we were
``up-town'' then.....(:+\\..... It beat CP/M..... Somewhere, I still
have the disks, but they are probably unreadable by now.
Bob
------------------------------
From: BSD Bob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: UNIX recruiters and MS Word resumes
Date: 23 Mar 2000 15:49:54 GMT
Timothy J. Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> |This one recruiter was really whiney: "But I don't _LIKE_ resumes in
> |text format". I guess saying "You'll take it and like it" isn't an
> |option.
> It is, if you are in an employees' job market.
Well, if we are supposed to be *nix types, send it to them in
native troff. After all, if you don't know nroff/troff on *nix,
you are still in training.....(:+\\.....
Bob
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Bsd and Linux
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:30:42 -0700
Donn Miller wrote:
>
> FreeBSD uses PAM. Don't know it it's enabled by default, though. I
> don't think PAM is RedHat specific.
It's not. It's even used in some commercial systems.
> I don't have time to find out
> what it does in depth, because I'm busy working up a resume in MS Word
> format for a unix recruiter. (Why do they always want them in Word
> format?) Yeah, I hate doing it, but for some reason they want them in
> Word format.
I send 'em PostScript format, and a link to my resume on my Web Site.
If they insist on MS Word Format. . . I don't want to work for them.
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Bsd and Linux
Date: 24 Mar 2000 23:39:31 GMT
In comp.os.linux.development.apps Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Chris Lee wrote:
:> I don't use sudo either. Why should I when I can just use su to do things as
:> root from my user account on my personal machine? sudo is basically a silly
:> pain-in-the-ass.
: I view sudo as kind of a security risk. Say, if joeuser has been
: given special privileges via sudo to do certain things, a hacker would
: only need to hack joeuser's account to do those certain things. He
: wouldn't even need to hack root's account.
Hacking root passwd is not harder than hacking joe passwd. But yes,
you get a broader target. The classical argument pro is given by RMS
in the manpage: if there is only root, then all the admins have to
know the root passwd, which therefore gets passed around and becomes
non-secret. OTOH if people have to use their own passwd to do root
things, instead of roots, then they'll keep it secret AND take good
care of it! They have to. It's their passwd.
And on a single user system, staying out of root is good practice.
Hence sudo.
Peter
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Bsd and Linux
Date: 24 Mar 2000 23:52:20 GMT
In comp.os.linux.development.apps Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
:> In comp.os.linux.development.apps Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> : "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
:>
:> :> Nope. Try again.
:>
:> : Uh-huh:
:>
:> : We can expect to see the performance of our processors double every
:> : 18 to 24 months for at least several years.
:>
:> : http://developer.intel.com/pressroom/archive/speeches/gem93097.htm
:>
:> Misquote of moores law. By you. I quote from the article in question:
: That quote *is* Moore. Do I need a sledgehammer?
No it isn't Moores law. Yes you evidently do. Try reading the article
again. The passage you extract that sentence from is in no way a quote
of moores law. Here's your passage:
and if this picture shows up well, should be able to see the
individual molecules, which shows up nicely in the original. We tend
to lose a little bit of resolution here.
The top layer is the polycrystalline silicon which makes up the gate.
The gray area in the middle here is the gate dielectric.
As you can see, its only several molecular layers thick. I dont
knowwe t show much more you can expect to scale that without beginning
to see some real problem. So at some time in the next several
generations, we really start to get to some fundamental limits. But
not before weve gone through probably five more
generations of technology
This will carry us quite a long way, and it will have some very
important impacts on what we can do with microprocessors. We can
expect to see the performance of our processors double every 18 to 24
months for at least several years.
If you extrapolate all those curves together, I think Jerry Parker,
who runs our technology and manufacturing operation, says we run out
of gas doing that in the year 2017. Thats well beyond my shift.
[after dinner speech ends about here]
And here's where the PR man refers to the well known Moores law: that
the number of transistors on a chip doubles every 18 months:
he was musing on the fact that he had noticed over the last year or
so that he was actually able to get a couple more transistors on
that die. And he thought, "Hmm, I wonder how often these things are
actually going to double in terms of the number of transistors I can
get on the chip."
And he thought, "I know; however many fish I catch today; thats how
many years its going to be." He got 18 fish; it was 18 months.
Without further ado, lets bring on Gordon Moore.
Gordon Moore himself then goes on to refer to the same idea. Try
looking in the dictionary of computing.
Peter
------------------------------
From: "Dirk Gently" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: I don't want to stir up any concerns...
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:03:13 GMT
Microsoft knows they can't win. They can only hope to prolong it, maybe by
porting their applications to Linux. It can only give them more business.
Work is horrible. Chech out Star Office 5.1 at
http://www.sun.com/staroffice
--
Jeff Lacy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8b77p8$mo5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Matt Chiglinsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> : Microsoft making software for someone else's OS? Nothing new. Didn't
> : they do that a long time ago with Apple? It will only promote
> : standardization. If they would only port Word to Linux then Linux
> : would finally be a decent desktop OS.
>
> I wouldn't expect such a thing to happen. Microsoft writes apps for
> Macintosh computers, because they don't entirely compete against
> Windows... they compete mostly against PC vendors.
>
> Linux on the other hand, is in direct competition with Windows.
> --
> .-----.
> |[_] :| Stephen S. Edwards II | http://www.primenet.com/~rakmount
> | = :| "Humans have the potential to become irrational... perhaps
> | | you should attempt to access that part of your psyche."
> |_..._| -- Lieutenant Commander Data
------------------------------
From: "John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Bsd and Linux
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 17:00:50 -0700
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> Of course you can re-enable it when you need to.
Yep. Some over-controlling NT admin jerk off tried this on my new NT
box at the last place I worked. It took about three minutes to fix
this.
> BTW, I prefer to use a boot password. The only danger is that I'll forget it,
> since I hardly ever reboot (-;
Not a problem. Open the box, clear the CMOS memory (which clears the
password), and reboot.
Like, how do you figure I re-enabled boot from floppy, dude!? ;-)
Since the rule seemed to be: "don't give out boot passwords" (since when
I complained about it, they told me they wouldn't give it to me), I
figured that the NT admin wouldn't want me telling him what the new boot
password *WAS* . . . so I didn't.
--
If I spoke for HP --- there probably wouldn't BE an HP!
John Stevens
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Dirk Gently" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: I don't want to stir up any concerns...
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:08:33 GMT
If you're clueless, look at http://www.antionline.com/archives/text/gtmhh/
http://www.antionline.com is a good resource.
--
Jeff Lacy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Davorin Mestric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8b8qo8$7rq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> hacking and programming means something different to different people.
can
> you please be more specific in this. what exactly do you mean by hacking?
> what did you hack, for example?
>
>
> Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >IMO,
> > there's nothing like a unix-type OS for doing hacking, and unix really
> > is unmatched for hacking and programming. You get all the development
> > tools, such as gcc, Qt, Lesstif, GTk, etc. for free. I don't know - I
> > just don't see me using Windows 2000/NT/98 whatever for programming or
> > hacking.
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefan Ohlsson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Dish Network's site is DOWN if you don't use M$'s browser.
Reply-To: Stefan Ohlsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 25 Mar 2000 01:21:18 +0100
Randy Crawford wrote:
>Simply amazing.
>
>I just tried to visit http://www.dishnetwork.com, but every
>time it crashed Netscape within visiting one, or at most two
>links off the main page. (I'm running Linux Redhat 6.0,
>Netscape 4.61, and I'm no newbie to Living Without Windows.)
>
This site is good... as an example for how NOT to make a site.
The layout is awful. Maybe because I have no java nor javascript.
It seems it's possible to navigate without it though.
All images lack ALT-tags. Lots of images lacks WIDTH and HEIGHT
attributes.
Anyways, here are some things to think about when designing a site
that I think are important;
Important Rule #1:
Java and Javascript should not be required to navigate a site.
Important Rule #2:
All images should have ALT,WIDTH and HEIGHT attributes.
Important Rule #3:
At no time should more than 3 frames be displayed, preferrably not more
than 2.
/Stefan
--
[ Stefan Ohlsson ] · http://www.mds.mdh.se/~dal95son/ · [ ICQ# 17519554 ]
Lenina Huxely: Let's go blow this guy.
John Spartan: Away! Let's go blow this guy *away*!
/Demolition Man
------------------------------
From: "Craig H. Block" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Winvocates getting you fired up?
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:28:11 +0000
Blow off some steam playing Trade Wars 2002. It's fun. It's free.
http://franknputer.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Absolute failure of Linux dead ahead?
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:53:13 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on Fri, 24 Mar 2000 10:29:02 -0500 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Geoff Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote on Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:59:05 +0000 <9m6ta8.7kp.ln@twirl>:
>> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> > Bill Godfrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> >> Use a standard library where time_t is a 64 bit signed integer (the new
>> >> C standard requires such an integer type) and keep using C. No need to
>> >> change languages.
>> >
>> >There are many reasons to keep C out of inexpert hands ( and there's only
>> >about 5 experts - three of whom devised the language!)
>>
>> Would you rather we rewrite the kernel in Fortran or COBOL? :-)
>>
>> [.sigsnip]
>>
>> --
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
>
>
>Hey! How about BASIC! ;->
Which variant? :-)
I have worked with, or know of, at least the following:
- an old HP basic that ran on 21xx hardware (and that's very very
old hardware!)
- Apple ][ integer Basic
- Apple /// floating point Basic
- IBM's built-in Basic interpreter on early-model PC's
- GWBasic
- ABasic (AmigaDOS)
- AmigaBasic (AmigaDOS)
- Commodore 64 Basic
- TRS-80
- Chipmunk
- Microsoft Basic (various versions)
and of course
- Microsoft Visual Basic
There are undoubtedly even earlier variants.
As far as I know, all of these are more or less syntactically
incompatible for any but the very simplest constructs.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- is something called "Basic" supposed to
be this complicated? :-)
------------------------------
From: josco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:58:38 -0800
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000, George Marengo wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 06:39:12 GMT, Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I didn't ask you to care about the Judges opinion. Your opinion is in
> >contradiction with the Judge's finding of fact. It says a lot about
> >the method of reasoning you use. When you cannot reconcile reality
> >with your theory then there's a motivation to change the theory. If
> >you don't care then fine with me.
>
> Do you have an opinion on the matter of whether IBM promoted OS/2
> aggressively enough? Were you using OS/2 in the 2.0/2.1 days and watch
> as they said OS/2 was better than Windows yet sold Windows on their
> hardware?
I was using OS/2 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0 and now 4.0.
IBM selling Windows and saying OS/2 is better is no more confusing to a
consumer than MS selling Office98 and IE for the Mac while they say the
Windows platform is better.
> Here's a simple question for you: was IBM required to sell Windows
> on their hardware?
Such a simple question:
I can think of three definitions for the word
require.
1.To have as a requisite; need: Most plants require sunlight.
2.To call for as obligatory or appropriate; demand.
3.To impose an obligation on; compel: Students are required to
attend classes.
By any definition, IBM was not requried to boycott windows to show they
put forth a serious and agressive campaign to promote OS/2.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Loukidelis)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1]
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:59:22 GMT
gnucash is too buggy (I tried, it crashed on me several times, and it
trashed my data). Moreover, it doesn't have the features I need for
personal financial management (yet). As for vmware, why should I
spend the money when I already have windoze?
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 13:58:19 GMT, John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Henrik Becker writes:
>> For Money and Quicken (why both?) use VMWare,...
>
>Use gnucash.
>
>--
>John Hasler
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Dancing Horse Hill
>Elmwood, Wisconsin
--
John Loukidelis
I am not your lawyer; this is not legal advice
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Loukidelis)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 has 63,000 bugs - Win2k.html [0/1] - Win2k.html [0/1]
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 00:59:22 GMT
I haven't tried xfinance; I'll check it out. But does it download
transactions from Canadian banks, obtain quotes on Canadian equities
and mutual funds, support tax cost tracking for registered retirement
savings plans? Etc. etc.
Neither StarOffice nor LyX support real inter-operability with Word,
and unfortunately, in my business, Word is a standard that we all have
to live with. Moreover, while I like LyX, it just doesn't have the
flexibility that I need in a word processor (I know -- it's *not* a
word processor blah blah blah).
On Fri, 24 Mar 2000 09:50:42 -0500, Allin Cottrell
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>John Loukidelis wrote:
>>
>> >What the heck you want to run that doesn't have a Linux version?
>>
>> MS Money, Quicken, MS Word...
>
>GnuCash, xfinance, LyX, StarOffice.
>
>--
>Allin Cottrell
>Department of Economics
>Wake Forest University, NC
--
John Loukidelis
I am not your lawyer; this is not legal advice
------------------------------
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