Linux-Advocacy Digest #817, Volume #25 Sun, 26 Mar 00 09:13:06 EST
Contents:
Re: Weak points (David Goldstein)
Re: Weak points (David Goldstein)
Re: Giving up on Tholen (tholenbot)
Re: Giving up on Tholen (tholenbot)
Re: Giving up on Tholen (Marty)
Re: Penquins Forever! Was (Re: A pox on the penguin?) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again) (Marty)
Re: Why did we even need NT in the first place? (Daniel O'Nolan)
Re: NT vs Linux vs Whatever.... (Tim Kelley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Weak points
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:14:25 +0200
SetMeUp wrote:
<snipped>
> I admit the implicit lie, but the non PS printers support arrives
> slowly and hardly. I mean, do you want to print under Linux (or
> Unix) ? Then choose your printer with much care. Under Windows 9x ?
> Then just buy whatever you want. Under NT/2000 ? Just take a littke
> care.
Visit the SuSE website and you will see the work that is being done
right now to support the entire Minolta line of printers, as well as the
cooperative work to get drivers for a lot of other hardware written. If
I go out and purchase a PS printer for my Linux box, can it be used
under Win(whatever)? Of course, the answer is yes. Since Steve likes
to argue about superior sound card support for Win and Mac, why should
it not make sense to purchase a PS printer? It would be an excellent
piece of hardware for all platforms and the cost these days is not a
problem anymore.
<snipped>
> I hate those graphical installations, most of all because are buggy;
> nothing to say if worked at least as good as console ones. I mean
> Linux is trying to imitate Windows, stop it now, just follow your
> own way, it will result in a better OS. And target it to server.
Do you hate the graphical installs under Win(xx), too? There is a
trend in this direction, because there is a belief that by making the
install "window-like", the user base for Linux will increase.
Personally, I think that it is a matter of porting every game available
to Linux. The real Win(xx) "power user" is someone that purchases the
best hardware available in order to run the latest games on the market.
By the way, install a copy of Win9(58) and not install the
AOL/Compuserve/MSN software. It is not possible. I prefer that MS not
use my desktop as an advertising board for products that I will never
use. I have to pay for the software, I should have the right to use it
commercial free.
<snipped>
> What I meant is that neither Microsoft Office is as bad or bloated,
> nor StarOffice (your office flag) as good or light. And that developing
> desktop applications will carry no matter what platform to a big
> software and towards bugs. If you need .DOC compatibility you
> need Microsoft Office, though I admit I would prefer documents
> to be exchanged under an open standar like HTML.
I hate that stupid "paper clip." There are other programs that are as
good as MS Office. To state otherwise is just bullshit. If MS did not
put a copy of Word on every desktop and lock the enduser in to the
latest Word format, sales of other office products would more than
likely increase. Funny, winvocates using terms like "open standards."
You cannot have it both ways. Either pressure is put on MS to develop
to a standard, or you keep allowing yourself to be put in jail through
vendor lock.
<snipped>
> Lie. While KDE shows the available icons under /opt/kde/share/icons
> to change a desktop item you can take your dinner. I wanted everyone
> to test it to see if I am telling the truth.
You are so full of shit on this one. I started using KDE on a P166MMX
with 32MB of RAM. The WW was slow to open apps, but once they were
opened, they ran just fun. Changing an icon is trivial in any WM.
<snipped>
> Every OS has its faults. I do not advocate Windows, just verify
> that is the today's most useful desktop home computer. I am not
> a normal user, so I have installed Windows 98, Windows 2000,
> two Linux, one FreeBSD and Solaris 7, but if I have to recommend
> a desktop OS : home = Win98, office = W2KPro. Servers are
> another thing, but even at that battle, I'd rather prefer Solaris or
> FreeBSD than Linux. My lies were tested under the 3 mindcraft
> tests (until Linux had to shut up), which carried Linus to even
> include kernel optimization http daemon just to beat Windows NT
> Server, that is not FUD, Redhat was there. The only thing Linux
> has better today is price and open source, if you do not need these ...
Another FUD paragraph. The most powerful home desktop computer is
dependent on the amount of money that one is ready to invest in a
product. I have no need for super-expensive, high-end sound cards, yet
Steve does and claims that my SB 16 is crap. If I wanted to put
together a really powerful desktop home computer, I could pay a few
thousand dollars (probably between 5 and 19, I do not know), and get an
SGI.
Your Wintel box cold not touch it for graphics or sound. Of course,
there are not enough games written for this computer, so it would suck,
too.
W2K also fudged many of their tests. I know that Steve hates C't, but
the tests are there. Linux makes an ideal desktop computer for someone
that wants to surf the web, check email, play a couple of decent games,
have a computer that is stabile, and even do the office thing. Linux in
the office is a better choice because of it's ability to grow with your
business without costing you extra money.
Where I currently work, I have set up a Linux box that supports Win98
clients. The Linux box is a proxy server, mail server, file and print
server, is set up for SQL, is a web server, an apps server, can be
remotely administered from any Win98, or Linux box, I could go on and
on, of course. Question, how much money would it cost to set this up
under NT4, or 5? Under Linux, I set it up for free. Well, actually. I
purchased a copy of SuSE 6.2 for personal use and set up the system at
work using the same CD's. I guess that you can spread the price of the
system out and say that it cost a whopping $10.00. Hope that doesn't
break someone :)
The Apache server, by the way, has gained market share (is it not
weird to talk about market share for something that does not cost
money?) and currently runs 60% of the internet. The market share will,
of course, continue to grow, since Linux market share in this area is
also growing. Where does that leave MS? They will probably try and buy
Apache just so they can shelve it.
<snipped>
> Sure it does, I wanted everyone tested it. Besides, IE5 under Windows
> 2000 has crashed only two times for me. I have been using IE5 for 12 hours
> non-stop heavily without problems. Netscape won't be able to do that.
Netscape 5.0 will be superior to IE5.0 My Netscape has no problem
being heavily used for days. I simply take a few precautions and turn
off services that I do no need. Real Audio and Shockwave do not
interest me, by the way. I never use these programs under Win, either.
I find them to be a great way to waste bandwidth.
<snipped>
> Note that I have neither nothing against you, nor against Linux; just
> telling my opinions based on mine and several people; and do not
> think that I talk about third party, every software I talked about is
> running
> on my machine and has been used by me. FUD is telling a 32MB machine
> changes icons under KDE as under Windows, or that Netscape crashes
> as much as IE, that's the real FUD.
You need to get over it. What you state about KDE is a lie. Netscape
is a half-truth. By the way, if MS did not dump IE on the desktop,
Netscape would have had the money to continue improving what was already
a superior browser. Now, IE is basically the lone player in the Win
market and MS feels no great need to produce a first-class browser. It
is produced with the typical flare of other MS products--they work, but
they are really nothing great.
<snipped>
> Well, you can do a thing, test it (if you have not done yet) and
> then you could talk by yourself. Microsoft is covering its own
> backs, but many home users would like to have a little partition
> to play games under Win98 and working with W2KPro, just
> because it is a pleasure. Some may even want to install Linux
> if they like playing with OS's and computers. And some may
> even want to use Linux tools although normally that will be
> harder to configurate, to use and beta.
Many home users would probably like to have Linux running on their
desktops, since it is much cheaper than Winxx, and does everything that
the user needs--internet services and write the occasional document.
Due to the FUD spread in MS biased journals about difficulty of set up
and lack of apps, they are coerced in to thinking that they need W2K pro
on their desktops for such endeavors.
<snipped>
> Yeah yeah ... 32MB under KDE perfectly ... uh ! You are a valerous man !
Come to my house and demonstrate this problem to me. I have tried
very hard to recreate the problem that you are describing, but it is not
possible.
David Goldstein
------------------------------
From: David Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Weak points
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 10:26:13 +0200
SetMeUp wrote:
>
> > : 1) Serious and easy modem/fax and printer support.
> > : (sendmail makes me laugh, postscript printers suck)
>
> Sorry, I wanted to say sendfax.
>
> > You can't possibly
> > be serious about the "suck"ness of Postscript printers.
> > The price is higher in some cases, but so is the quality
>
> Exactly, higher enough that home users prefer other
> printers just like Canon, HP, Epson, ... no postscript,
> now tell me that printers as are easy to configure at
> Linux that at Windows ... and I'll tell you lier.
Well APSFILTER seems to work just great for my Canon BJC 4200
printer. All I needed to do was tell it which port to use. So, I guess
you will have to call me a liar. To set the printer up under Win, I
need to install from two floppies and then do the famous REBOOT for the
changes to take effect. How is that easier, or faster? Oh, I see,
since the computer REBOOTS automatically, it is easier. What if I am
installing more than one hardware device and I want to do the reboot
when all of the hardware--or software, for that matter--is installed?
<snipped>
> If I change my printer under Windows I just change the
> hardware and insert cd drivers CD, it autoplays, and
> installs perfectly ... that's end user usability.
see above.
> > Most modern window managers use GUI-based configuration.
> > You shouldn't need to mess with the files unless you want to.
>
> What about similar behaviour ? You do not tell anything about
> it : compare KDE, GNOME, icewm, Windowmaker, amiwm,
> mlwm, fvwm, fvwm95, afterstep, ... I thought that copy and
> paste was a big thing, and please, don't send me to gpm.
Have you ever tried to do copy and paste in these WM's? Of course,
KDE works just like Winxx does, so I can do the copy, paste,
drag-n-drop. Under FVWM, I can do these things also, by the way. As far
as the other WM's are concerned, I am fairly confident that it is
possible, too, but I use FVWM most of the time.
<snipped the rest>
I have already covered the rest of your post and rehashing won't make
you go away any faster.
David Goldstein
------------------------------
From: tholenbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on Tholen
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 05:54:18 -0500
In article <%KjD4.13467$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Jason Bowen writes:
>
> > I know from his inability to follow the the thread
>
> What alleged inability, Jason?
Don't you know? Your lack of knowledge was predictable, Dave.
> I answered George's question directly,
> thus providing evidence that I am able to follow "the the" thread.
On what basis do you make this claim?
> > that Dave is either mentally challenged,
>
> Typical invective, as expected from someone who lacks a logical
> argument,
Irrelevant.
> and rather ironic, coming from someone who wrote "the the".
Also irrelevant.
> > he couldn't understand the implicit reference from the previous post
> > in the thread,
>
> You couldn't retain any context. Are you "context challenged", Jason?
See what he means?
> > or antagonistic.
>
> Need I remind you that you are the one who responded to me, Jason?
Ask your grasshopper, Dave.
> > He is one or the other.
>
> That you cannot think of other possibilities shows that you are the
> one "mentallly challenged", Jason.
Prove it, if you think you can.
> > Of course I would have to say what one or the other was in that last
> > sentence for Dave to understand what I am talking about heh?
>
> How ironic, coming from the person who didn't understand that I am able
> to follow "the the" thread.
You erroneously presuppose that you are able to follow "the the" thread.
> > That is what he is claiming, he can't follow the implicit reference.
>
> Where did I make that alleged claim, Jason?
Maybe your inability to follow the implicit reference has something to
do with this.
--
On what basis do you claim that mashed potatoes can be my friends?
------------------------------
From: tholenbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on Tholen
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 05:55:45 -0500
In article <EMjD4.13468$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I wonder if borg.com would be interested
What you wonder is irrelevant. What interests borg.com is also
irrelevant. More evidence of your inability to comprehend context. Of
course, that is to be expected, coming from someone who lacks a logical
argument.
> to know that you've continued
> making unsubstantiated claims?
Typical unsubstantiated question. How ironic.
--
On what basis do you claim that mashed potatoes can be my friends?
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on Tholen
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:22:10 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > that Dave is either mentally challenged,
>
> Typical invective, as expected from someone who lacks a logical
> argument, and rather ironic, coming from someone who wrote "the the".
How ironic, coming from someone who wrote "mentallly":
DT> That you cannot think of other possibilities shows that you are the
DT> one "mentallly challenged", Jason.
If you're going to poke fun at someone's spelling/grammar mistakes, you would
do well to double check your own to avoid looking like a fool.
--
The wit of Bob Osborn in action:
"Perhaps it something you should try to your kids don't end up as stupid as
you."
"There is an old saying fartface."
"Not only are you a filthy low-life lying bastard pig, you are too stupid to
know it."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Penquins Forever! Was (Re: A pox on the penguin?)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 13:08:12 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <ereD4.411$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"ax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> But in Linux, all penguins are lazy sitting with round belly.
> They cannot walk or fly. They cannot even stand up
> with fat belly. Linux penguins must have been eating
> too much "free" stuff.
>
> Totally amazing to see sitting penguins everywhere!
>
> Can Linxu penguins fly someday?
>
> It must be scary if those sitting penguins all suddenly
> stand up and walk. They'd better be sitting!
Nothing could be further from the truth. Linux is moving so fast,
in so many different areas (desktop, servers, embedded devices),
that it is taking the s/w indusrty by storm. Those not myopic
from the M$ affect on this industry are adopting Linux in their
droves. In the sea of s/w the Linux penguin is supreme. :-)
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bob shows his lack of knowledge yet again)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 11:26:08 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Is it logical to remove context from a discussion, Jason?
That's something you need to ask yourself, hypocrite.
--
The wit of Bob Osborn in action:
"Perhaps it something you should try to your kids don't end up as stupid as
you."
"There is an old saying fartface."
"Not only are you a filthy low-life lying bastard pig, you are too stupid to
know it."
------------------------------
From: Daniel O'Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why did we even need NT in the first place?
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 08:25:13 +0200
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Daniel O'Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote on Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:41:24 +0100 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >"Mr. Rupert" wrote:
> >
> ></SNIP>
> >
> >> <*sigh*> Dare I ask what this new 'whistler technology' is all about? Is
> >> it a technology, or an MS mop and bucket?
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mr Rupert
> >If I'm not mistaken (though I'm waiting for someone to tell me that I
> >am), it's what should have been "Windows 2000" (NT for consumers).
>
> Windows 2K is specifically targeted for the business market;
> Windows Millennium (also known as Windows Me, which I for one
> find slightly humorous in light of Austin Powers' work :-) ) is
> the one slated for the hoi polloi, and will presumably be released
> sometime this summer.
>
> This after Microsoft has been promising for some years to
> eliminate the DOS/Winshell hybrid, and even claimed, during early
> marketing of Win95, to have successfully done it.
>
> Smirk.
>
> >
> >Dan O'Nolan
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
Some people still beleive that this is true! I recently got into a huge
argument with a tech at a software store because he claimed that DOS 7
was EMULATED. It amazes me how dullards like that can get jobs at
computer stores.
Dan
------------------------------
From: Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NT vs Linux vs Whatever....
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 07:43:32 -0600
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I've been reading this newsgroup for a while, and watching the "NT vs
> Linux" threads for some time.
>
> It seems lik a bit of a waste of time.
>
> Linux has some challenges it has to overcome, as do NT and other MS
> products.
>
> If you like MS Win9x or 2000, seems like your time would be more
> productively spent using it than talking about it. If Linux is a threat
> to MS Os's, debating it in newsgroups like this isn't going to help your
> case. If it's as antiquated and outdated as you claim, then you have
> nothing to worry about and can laugh off the Linux community as a bunch
> of oddballs.
>
> At least Linux gives users a choice, rather than being forced into doing
> things however MS decided to do them.
Well, yeah, but the problem is that there are all these trolls from c.o.m.n.a
posting absolute nonsense in here ("s", "piddy", "sponge", "chad Myers" "drestin
black", etc.)
have a lot of people foaming at the mouth.
So what are you going to do? Killfile them and let them lie to everyone?
--
Tim Kelley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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