Linux-Advocacy Digest #849, Volume #25 Tue, 28 Mar 00 01:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Giving up on NT (Bobo shows his hypocrisy yet again) (Marty)
Re: Giving up on NT (Bobo shows his hypocrisy yet again) (When in LA)
Re: Iridium Tech Support (evilsofa)
Re: Windows 2000: nothing worse ("Stephen S. Edwards II")
Re: Giving up on NT (Bobo shows his hypocrisy yet again) (Marty)
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: Peter Norton is one smart dude ("Trevor Fuson")
Re: Peter Norton is one smart dude (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: I don't want to stir up any concerns... ("Trevor Fuson")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bobo shows his hypocrisy yet again)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 04:50:29 GMT
Are you *still* posting on a topic about which you know, at most, 50%? You've
already admitted:
BO> I don't read Tholen's posts
So how then can anything you say have relevance on this topic?
I also continue to find it interesting how you've determined that I'm not
being reasonable:
BO> Obviously you are not going to be reasonable.
Yet, you responded to me anyway in spite of your rhetoric:
BO> I will not reply to you until such time as you direct yourself to at
BO> least a statement of position on the above issues. Until such time,
BO> I will hold my opinion, and you may hold your own, but I am not going
BO> to continue to engage you in irrelevant prattle on the subjects.
Predictably, just more Bobo hot air.
Bobo wrote (using a pseudonym again):
>
> On Sun, 28 Mar 3900 04:42:20, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
"[more flak deleted]"
> Marty Amodeo says: "If Glatt, Sutherland, yourself, or myself tried
> to get someone fired for using a particular word it is a despicable
> act."
>
> David Sutherland made the following quotes in posts residing on
> Dejanews:
>
> If I posted anything remotely like Tholen's "queer" [Editor: Note
> particular word in quotes] comments with my employers name
> anywhere within that message, I would be escorted to the door,
> and rightly so.[Editor: Note euphemism for firing]
>
> If Tholen doesn't apologise in full, publicly and at great length, I
> *will* advise his university, as this kind of bullshit *should* and
> *will* be challenged.[Editor: Note threat]
>
> I've asked Kenneth P. Mortimer, President, University of
> Hawaii ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for his opinion on how
> certain members of the faculty are spending their time.[Editor: Note
> admission to personal notification of employer]
>
> Tholen used "queer" [Editor: Note particular word in quotes] as an
> insult and a means to attack someone. This is discriminatory. He did
> so from his employers account. His employer has a policy against
> discrimination. Tholen acted against the policies of his employer.
> Tholens employer is now aware of this. [Editor: Note reason for
> contacting employer]
>
> Pretty despicable, I have to agree Marty.
Still demonstrating your inability to prove your claims? How embarrasing! No
matter how many times you repeat it, it does not magically produce evidence
that Sutherland tried to get Tholen fired for using a word, especially in
light of Sutherland's reproduction of the letter he actually sent to the U of
H. I ask again (noting the lack of previous response), where is the part that
proves that Sutherland tried to get him fired for using a word? Can't find
that part, can you? Too bad.
I see your signature is unchanged. So much for:
BO> See I am not such an unreasonable guy Marty. I will work with you
BO> on this.
More hot air. How convenient that you lied about my response to this
statement.
--
The wit of Bob Osborn in action:
"Perhaps it something you should try to your kids don't end up as stupid as
you."
"There is an old saying fartface."
"Not only are you a filthy low-life lying bastard pig, you are too stupid to
know it."
------------------------------
From: When in LA
Reply-To: When in LA
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bobo shows his hypocrisy yet again)
Date: 28 Mar 2000 04:55:52 GMT
On Sun, 28 Mar 3900 04:47:16, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
|Are you *still* posting on a topic about which you know, at most, 50%? You've
|already admitted:
|BO> I don't read Tholen's posts
Are you trying to imply here Marty that if I read Tholen's posts then
I would be in favor of Sutherland trying to get Tholen fired? Seems
hardly a reasonable theory, especially when all you need to do is set
your filter file to exclude Tholen.
|So how then can anything you say have relevance on this topic?
You indeed are an idiot. I could care less how obnoxious Tholen is or
is not. I don't read his posts, but I don't need to read his posts to
know that what David Sutherland did is wrong.
BobO
Marty Amodeo says: "If Glatt, Sutherland, yourself, or myself tried
to get someone fired for using a particular word it is a despicable
act."
David Sutherland made the following quotes in posts residing on
Dejanews:
If I posted anything remotely like Tholen's "queer" [Editor: Note
particular word in quotes] comments with my employers name
anywhere within that message, I would be escorted to the door,
and rightly so.[Editor: Note euphemism for firing]
If Tholen doesn't apologise in full, publicly and at great length, I
*will* advise his university, as this kind of bullshit *should* and
*will* be challenged.[Editor: Note threat]
I've asked Kenneth P. Mortimer, President, University of
Hawaii ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for his opinion on how
certain members of the faculty are spending their time.[Editor: Note
admission to personal notification of employer]
Tholen used "queer" [Editor: Note particular word in quotes] as an
insult and a means to attack someone. This is discriminatory. He did
so from his employers account. His employer has a policy against
discrimination. Tholen acted against the policies of his employer.
Tholens employer is now aware of this. [Editor: Note reason for
contacting employer]
Pretty despicable, I have to agree Marty.
------------------------------
From: evilsofa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Iridium Tech Support
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:00:00 GMT
In article
<nnrD4.18965$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "bobsun"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Colin R. Day wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >ZnU wrote:
> >
> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jerry
> >> McBride) wrote:
>
> >
> >The surface of the earth has an area of about 200 million square
> >miles. As the total area of the world's cities is much more than 200
> >square miles, the probability is greater than one in a million.
>
>
> Greater Los Angeles has to cover several (5?) thousand square miles alone.
> Phoenix is about 2000 sq miles.
>
> bobsun
Incorrect. The largest city by area in the US is Juneau, Alaska, with
3,081 square miles. [1] The city of Los Angeles only covers 468 square
miles. [2]
[1] <http://geography.about.com/library/misc/bllgcity.htm>
[2] <http://encarta.msn.com/find/concise.asp?mod=1&ti=02D4C000&page=2#s3>
Okay, okay, if you want to get technical about it, the Los Angeles
metropolis covers 88,000 square miles and 5 counties...
--
The last words of General John Sedgewick, Union
commander in the American Civil War:
"They couldn't hit an elephant from this dist----"
------------------------------
From: "Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000: nothing worse
Date: 28 Mar 2000 05:04:46 GMT
Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: On 27 Mar 2000 23:20:36 GMT, Stephen S. Edwards II wrote:
: >Yet, the root account still exists on the system. You seem to have
: >overlooked that little fact. The very existence of root is a problem.
: Why is it a problem that it exists if it is not used ?
I'm thinking in terms of malicious intent here. Disgruntled employees,
etc. It has, and does happen often. I think this was the context of
Erik's argument as well, but I shouldn't speak for him in that fashion.
: >Erik isn't saying that root is too much power to handle. He's saying that
: >it doesn't make sense that some sysadmin, drunk on power, can just
: >carelessly delete data files of other users at random, if he/she so
: >wishes.
: If the systems administrators are "drunk on power", the users are pretty
: screwed regardless. And as it's already been pointed out, you have the
: same kind of issues with the Adminstrator account on NT ( take ownership )
: The point is that *someone* has to have control over the system.
Right. But there is also the point of making a mistake, which humans are
known to do from time to time.
: Sure, you can abuse "rm". You can also abuse a hammer and bash the case
: with it. The point being ?
The point being, that with root and rm, you can wipe out an entire user
database in seconds. With WindowsNT, you have to take ownership of each
and every file and folder. This has to be done manually, and cannot be
done by mistake, or on the fly.
: >: Me, I make typos, but I never destroy my system, 'cause I've learned to
: >: think before I hit return. Especially if the command I'm typing is
: >: potentially dangerous.
: >
: >I see. You never make mistakes.
: He didn't say he "never made mistakes". He said that he doesn't hose his
: system due to carelessnes. This is not about being infallible, it's about
: being careful with priveliged accounts.
I was just addressing his smarminess with that.
: But like he said, if the "dangers" of root are scary, make an admin account.
It's not that they are scary. It's that they don't make sense.
A pedantic point? Perhaps, but it's still an valid one, IMHO.
: Sure, it's not on the default setting, but if you want to talk about
: default settings and file protections ... hmmm ...
Touche'. :-)
--
.-----.
|[_] :| Stephen S. Edwards II | http://www.primenet.com/~rakmount
| = :| "Humans have the potential to become irrational... perhaps
| | you should attempt to access that part of your psyche."
|_..._| -- Lieutenant Commander Data
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Giving up on NT (Bobo shows his hypocrisy yet again)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:05:22 GMT
Are you *still* posting on a topic about which you know, at most, 50%? You've
already admitted:
BO> I don't read Tholen's posts
So how then can anything you say have relevance on this topic?
I also continue to find it interesting how you've determined that I'm not
being reasonable:
BO> Obviously you are not going to be reasonable.
Yet, you responded to me anyway in spite of your rhetoric:
BO> I will not reply to you until such time as you direct yourself to at
BO> least a statement of position on the above issues. Until such time,
BO> I will hold my opinion, and you may hold your own, but I am not going
BO> to continue to engage you in irrelevant prattle on the subjects.
Predictably, just more Bobo hot air.
Bobo wrote (using a pseudonym again):
>
> On Sun, 28 Mar 3900 04:47:16, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> |Are you *still* posting on a topic about which you know, at most, 50%? You've
> |already admitted:
> |BO> I don't read Tholen's posts
>
> Are you trying to imply here Marty that if I read Tholen's posts then
> I would be in favor of Sutherland trying to get Tholen fired?
More reading comprehension problems I see. You have failed to witness 50% of
the testimony of the case by your own admission. Your opinion on the matter
is worthless (as is your empty rhetoric and hot air).
> Seems hardly a reasonable theory, especially when all you need to do
> is set your filter file to exclude Tholen.
How he is excluded is immaterial (as is the rest of your excuse for an
argument). You have still failed to locate David's alleged admission, and as
such, have been a hypocrite in requesting evidence from someone else.
> |So how then can anything you say have relevance on this topic?
>
> You indeed are an idiot.
Talk about juvenile insults. Note the lack of reasoning behind it.
> I could care less how obnoxious Tholen is or is not.
Who even mentioned such a thing? Continuing your verbal masturbation still?
> I don't read his posts
Then why speak of the situation as if you were knowledgable when you've only
read half of the testimony at most? Your "points" are again shown to meerly
be hot air.
> BobO
>
> Marty Amodeo says: "If Glatt, Sutherland, yourself, or myself tried
> to get someone fired for using a particular word it is a despicable
> act."
>
> David Sutherland made the following quotes in posts residing on
> Dejanews:
>
> If I posted anything remotely like Tholen's "queer" [Editor: Note
> particular word in quotes] comments with my employers name
> anywhere within that message, I would be escorted to the door,
> and rightly so.[Editor: Note euphemism for firing]
>
> If Tholen doesn't apologise in full, publicly and at great length, I
> *will* advise his university, as this kind of bullshit *should* and
> *will* be challenged.[Editor: Note threat]
>
> I've asked Kenneth P. Mortimer, President, University of
> Hawaii ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for his opinion on how
> certain members of the faculty are spending their time.[Editor: Note
> admission to personal notification of employer]
>
> Tholen used "queer" [Editor: Note particular word in quotes] as an
> insult and a means to attack someone. This is discriminatory. He did
> so from his employers account. His employer has a policy against
> discrimination. Tholen acted against the policies of his employer.
> Tholens employer is now aware of this. [Editor: Note reason for
> contacting employer]
>
> Pretty despicable, I have to agree Marty.
Still demonstrating your inability to prove your claims? How embarrasing! No
matter how many times you repeat it, it does not magically produce evidence
that Sutherland tried to get Tholen fired for using a word, especially in
light of Sutherland's reproduction of the letter he actually sent to the U of
H. I ask again (noting the lack of previous response), where is the part that
proves that Sutherland tried to get him fired for using a word? Can't find
that part, can you? Too bad.
I see your signature is unchanged. So much for:
BO> See I am not such an unreasonable guy Marty. I will work with you
BO> on this.
More hot air. How convenient that you lied about my response to this
statement.
--
The wit of Bob Osborn in action:
"Perhaps it something you should try to your kids don't end up as stupid as
you."
"There is an old saying fartface."
"Not only are you a filthy low-life lying bastard pig, you are too stupid to
know it."
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 04:59:00 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Roger <roger@.> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2000 08:13:09 -0500, someone claiming to be T. Max
> Devlin wrote:
>
> >> Ah, so * that's * why, ATI and certain
> >> other video card manufacturers
> >> don't release the info required
> >> for the creation of Linux drivers
--
> >>because of licensing of MS's OSes.
>
> >Need I bother disagreeing with such a ludicrous answer?
> > No, but I will anyway, since its you, Roger.
> > I assume they don't release their proprietary
> >information because they are in business and are not stupid.
But think about it. The primary market for ATI is after-market
Video cards. Their primary outlets would be either OEMs, and
end-users.
On the other hand, S3 created a special version of Xfree86 that
fully exploited their chip's capabilities. The S3 chips are
still purchased for use in Linux systems (the safest after-market
video card you can buy is an S3 Trio64 or an S3 Virge for PCI bus.
But when they did this, OEMs suddenly switched to other chips.
While the S3 chips were relatively cheap and effectively met the
needs of most Windows users - freeing the processor up to do real
work, the OEMs switched to other chips which required more processor
support.
> Ah, so it's * not * due to pressure by MS
> that they do not support Linux.
Given that the graphics chips and hardware are patented, and that
the primary market for these chips and boards are OEMs and End Users,
why would they want to exclude the Linux market?
After all, if there were 20 million systems converted to Linux, and
many users were purchasing Linux capable systems by building from
scratch (as opposed to traditional OEM channels) it would make sense
that you could get a very large market by providing a really
impressive Xfree implementation (or even a proprietary X server) for
Linux.
> >>Or did you miss the fact that the discussion was hardware
> >>manufacturers in general?
Let's take a look at which hardware was "strategic" to Windows 98.
First, the Universal Serial Bus. Linux actually had support for
the Universal Serial Bus protocol nearly a year before Windows 98
was released, but the protocol for communicating to scanners,
printers, and storage devices was developed AFTER Microsoft had
nondisclosure agreements with the manufacturers. Furthermore,
the hardware makers were even required to have the user agree
not to sniff the bus to reverse engineer the protocol.
Linus knows how to speak USB, and he even knows that there are
people who have cracked the protocol. Unfortunately, he can't
put the complex peripheral protocol code into Linux because it's
protected by Microsoft agreements.
As usual, even if I had the agreements in front of me, I couldn't
tell you what's in them. That could only be revealed under a court
order. I wouldn't be the one to ask, but the membership of the USB
standards committee would be a good starting point.
--
Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
I/T Architect, MIS Director
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 60 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 1%/week!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Trevor Fuson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Peter Norton is one smart dude
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:43:32 -0800
abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8bosl4$1lu3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Stephen S. Edwards II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> > : HFS and HFS+, since the invention of the dynamically updated desktop
file.
> > "Dynamically updated desktop file" has absolutely _NOTHING_ to do with
> > filesystem journaling.
> > : It is a journaled filesystem in the strictest sense of the term.
>
> > No, it is not.
>
> Yes, it is.
ha ha ha
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Peter Norton is one smart dude
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 05:41:03 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Stephen S. Edwards II" wrote:
>
> > AFAIK, the journaling filesystems for Linux
> > are still under development.
> > Are reiserfs, Xfs, or Jfs in widespread use yet?
Actually, journaling filesystems are not as much of a priority
for Linux as they were for NT. It's likely that Windows 2000
will eventually drop them.
Most of the UNIX and Linux filesystems support i-nodes and manage
i-nodes much like a double-entry accounting system. Blocks are
removed from the "free space i-node" and moved to the appropriate
file i-node. Once the i-nodes have been updated, the block itself
can be modified.
Assuming that power-fail detection provides enough time to flush
the i-node table, the file-system integrity is quite managable.
In systems where better journalling is needed, you can sync or flush
files to force the updated i-nodes to go to the hard drive. In
addition, you can use other forms of journalling to keep track of the
file-system.
Windows does not come with complimentary revision control system
(MKS offers PVCS, and Developer's studio offers version control),
while Linux includes both RCS and CVS to track updates to any file
that can be managed with diff (RCS will also archive binaries).
Windows Fat 16 and Fat 32 stores files in large clusters ranging
from 4k to 32k per cluster. Windows NTFS supports 512 byte blocks
but still orients storage toward clusters. As a result, it's
undesirable to have lots of tiny little files. This means that
the ability to recover a file corrupted by a race condition related
crash is much more important. Linux and UNIX allocate blocks in
units of either 512 bytes or 1024 bytes (depending on the original
formatting). Furthermore, ext2 directories are designed so that
hundreds of files can be stored in a single directory and each file
can be quickly located. This makes it more practical to put hundreds
of small articles (news postings, e-mails, receipts, orders,...) into
individual files under a single directory.
Additionally, tools like grep, awk, sed, and perl make it easy to
create summaries of these tiny little documents in very short time.
The use of pipelines for update systems makes storage of logs via
the "tee" command very easy. In fact, in modern versions, both the
storage and the pipelines are usually optimized to minimize latency.
When you really need a large database, the databases have their own
journalling system.
> > Is there another one besides these that works well?
Journalling is a bit like compression. At one time companies
like Stack and later Microsoft thought it would be a really neat
thing to compress everything on the hard drive. They started
compressing each track, and eventually the entire drive. The
problem was that much of the content was already compressed (GIF,
JPEG, and ZIP files for example). Ironically, the zip file is
actually the decendent of two UNIX commands called ar and compress.
Eventually, PKWare and the authors of ARC reached a settlement,
and PKWare improved the compression as well as the indexing.
In Windows, you created problems when you tried to doublespace
the entire drive. You couldn't upgrade, and if you messed up
the system too badly, you had to start all over again. A corrupted
byte in a single sector could corrupt the entire filesystem.
Most people today preferr to compress the files they want to archive,
and keep the current files uncompressed. We also use compressed
formats such as GIF (compressed BMP), JPEG (compressed photographs),
PDF (compressed simplified postscript), and of course the zip file.
In UNIX I could compress any file, send it across the internet,
and uncompress it on the receiving end. It's a paridigm shift.
In the Windows paradigm, compression must be written into a monolithic
applications which is compiled into the production version. Once
the function is added, it cannot be altered, replaced, or removed.
In the UNIX paradigm, compression is a simple command that takes
whatever comes in the standard input, compresses it, and pours it into
the standard output. This isn't terribly efficient for things like
sorting, but it's very good for things like encryption, compression,
journalling, back-up, recovery, filtering, and summarizations.
Journalling is a similar function of the paradigm shift. Since the
monolithic Windows applications generally don't support journalling,
archiving, and revision control, you must make these features a
function of the operating system. Ideally, you'd make journalling
an option at the directory level, so that you could store stable
information into unjournaled locations and store volitile information
(checks, receipts, registrations,...) into the journalling directory.
> > NOTE: I am not baiting... I'm really asking out of curiosity.
It's nice to see some civilized discussions in this group.
> Suse now ships with reiserfs.
Typically, in a Linux system, you might put one of your partitions
under reiserfs because that's were you wanted to put checks. But
you wouldn't just casually journal everything you did.
> Gary
--
Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
I/T Architect, MIS Director
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 60 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 1%/week!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Trevor Fuson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: I don't want to stir up any concerns...
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:59:38 -0800
Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8bogv2$jv9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Trevor Fuson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> : W. Kiernan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> : news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> :> Matt Chiglinsky wrote:
> You must be joking. Word and WordPerfect are equal capable of
> generating garbled formatting just by their pointy-clicky nature
> (assuming the modern version of each). The difference is that
> in WordPerfect, I at least have a chance to eliminate the
> offending formatting and restore my document to a usable state.
>
> As for Word, I have yet to meet someone who *hasn't* had a
> problem with it. The secretaries are accustomed to retyping
When I worked in support 99% of the calls were WP problems. In the 2 years
I worked in that position I recovered countless corrupted Word Perfect
documents, and I used the Word import feature to do it.
Keeping Word Perfect from crashing 7 times a day is a miracle. WP is a
piece of garbage.
------------------------------
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