Linux-Advocacy Digest #903, Volume #25 Sat, 1 Apr 00 18:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped (Robert Heininger)
Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Nice link (Jim Dabell)
Re: Microsoft's settlement offer : publish ALL OR NOTHING AT ALL
(Walter-is-my-fake-name-because-walters-are-always-dumb)
Re: You want vapor??? I'd like to see you anti-M$ers complain about THIS
(Walter-is-my-fake-name-because-walters-are-always-dumb)
Re: You want vapor??? I'd like to see you anti-M$ers complain about THIS ("John
Hughes")
Linux bugs!!! ("Cihl")
Re: Linux bugs!!! (Mig Mig)
Re: Linux bugs!!! (Jim Dabell)
Re: OT:RANT:Long: If anyone develops an IDE for Linux PLEASE NO PROJECT FILES (or
MDI for that matter) (Richard Corfield)
Re: Linux bugs!!! (Mig Mig)
Re: Windows 2000 has "issues" (Bob Lyday)
Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped (Douglas E. Mitton)
distribpricing ("JAS")
Re: linux users group? (Daniel O'Nolan)
Re: Windows 2000 has "issues" (mlw)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Heininger)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:06:52 GMT
>> What are the 10 things about Linux you wish you knew before you got a
>> copy and started installing?
The one and only single thing that I wish I knew about Linux before starting
to use it, is that it was going to be so flipp'n EASY. If I knew that, I would
of not waited so damn long to do it!
BTW:
Anybody looking for some `free' WinDoS software at my expense? There is a box
full of Win3x, Win9x, and WinNT, installation media and documentation, buried
in a landfill in upstate NY, and if you would like, I'd be happy to forward the
street address to you. ;-)
--
Robert Heininger __
# / / __ _ _ _ _ __ __ #
(o- # / /__ / / / \// //_// \ \/ / #
//\ # /____/ /_/ /_/\/ /___/ /_/\_\ #
v_/_ # The Choice of the GNU Generation #
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:20:58 GMT
On Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:07:13 +0100, "Nick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> What are the 10 things about Linux you wish you knew before you got a
>> copy and started installing?
>
>Good point.
>
>Number one on my list would definitely be the fairly new Winmodem stuck in
>my PCI slot. Thank god for Windoze user friends that you can sell them on to
>: )
>
>Still haven't got the wheel on my mouse working yet...
IMWheel should do the trick.
Try:
http://www.freshmeat.net and look for IMWheel.
Steve
>Nick H
>
>
------------------------------
From: Jim Dabell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Nice link
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:15:34 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> That's what i would really like to know!
> Does anyone know of a similar bug in Linux?
> If so, please post it immediately! I wanna see it!
> (It must be there somewhere)
If a program that doesn't run as root can crash Linux, then I'd want to
know about it straight away, too :)
Jim
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Walter-is-my-fake-name-because-walters-are-always-dumb)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft's settlement offer : publish ALL OR NOTHING AT ALL
Reply-To: n/a
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:50:33 GMT
On 1 Apr 2000 12:34:09 -0600, Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 17:43:59 GMT,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Walter) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:23:33 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The
>>Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
>>
>>>In comp.lang.java.advocacy, fungus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>wrote on Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:52:55 GMT
>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Walter wrote:
>> ALL must be published, included timely updates,
>>else it's useless
>>and POINTLESS.
>>
>>
>>ALL OR NOTHING AT ALL.
>
>Only if you apply that to every other software company in the world
>too. I'm sure Oracle and IBM would love that.
They should forced to when they constitute MONOPOLIES.
IBM: IBM is moving rapidly toward Linux.
(A smart move by IBM would be to free and open OS/2,
so that parts of it could be cannibalized and melted into
GNU projects).
Oracle:
two facts:
- Interbase is now open-sourced and a viable alternative to Oracle
onto different platforms
- SQL Server 2000 will saw out large percentages of Oracle installed
base. (mainly due to better -and faster- win2k integration)
I bet one day or another even
Oracle will try to react by disclosing the source of its products to
keep the front line.
I know that Mummy$croft now doesn't see open-sourcing as a viable and
danger-free way to go, and such it appears now,
but every company who buys a product is comforted by the knowledge of
having the source available, not to mention States (EU, Russia, China)
that simply cannot rely onto a foreign technology for their industrial
wealth and military security.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Walter-is-my-fake-name-because-walters-are-always-dumb)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: You want vapor??? I'd like to see you anti-M$ers complain about THIS
Reply-To: n/a
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:56:15 GMT
Jen!! Remember that this is the 1st of April!!!!
On 1 Apr 2000 12:46:08 -0600, Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/2000/13/ns-14524.html
>
>The anti-M$ers are talking about a "Playstation 3" even though the PS2
>isn't even available in this country yet! This is the ultimate
>example of vapor.
>
>I love the last line in the story:
>
>"Launch date has been provisionally announced for PlayStation3 --
>believed to be some time close to the beginning of April next year, or
>the year after that."
>
>Wow. "close to the beginning of April" or "the year after that".
>
>You mean the Playstation 2 will be obsolete in ONE YEAR??? Even two
>years it pretty bad.
>
------------------------------
From: "John Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: You want vapor??? I'd like to see you anti-M$ers complain about THIS
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:43:26 +0100
Reply-To: "John Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
So Zdnet have been stuck in the 'April 1st time warp' then?
NOW I understand!
"Walter-is-my-fake-name-because-walters-are-always-dumb"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Jen!! Remember that this is the 1st of April!!!!
>
>
> On 1 Apr 2000 12:46:08 -0600, Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/2000/13/ns-14524.html
> >
> >The anti-M$ers are talking about a "Playstation 3" even though the PS2
> >isn't even available in this country yet! This is the ultimate
> >example of vapor.
> >
> >I love the last line in the story:
> >
> >"Launch date has been provisionally announced for PlayStation3 --
> >believed to be some time close to the beginning of April next year, or
> >the year after that."
> >
> >Wow. "close to the beginning of April" or "the year after that".
> >
> >You mean the Playstation 2 will be obsolete in ONE YEAR??? Even two
> >years it pretty bad.
> >
>
------------------------------
From: "Cihl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux bugs!!!
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 20:49:13 GMT
This is a follow-up of the thread "Nice link" which was started by me :-)
I wish to propose the following challenge for everyone:
Find a way, ANY way of crashing the entire Linux operating system while
operating as a non-root user! Please post anything you can find in this
thread. I'm sure many people will be interested!
Also, for the WinTrolls, this is your chance! Take it! Take Linux, and crash
the hell out of it, the way Linux-users can while using Windows!
------------------------------
From: Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux bugs!!!
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 22:01:08 +0200
Cihl wrote:
> This is a follow-up of the thread "Nice link" which was started by me :-)
> I wish to propose the following challenge for everyone:
>
> Find a way, ANY way of crashing the entire Linux operating system while
> operating as a non-root user! Please post anything you can find in this
> thread. I'm sure many people will be interested!
Thats rather easy by reading the kernel mailing list.. i remneber one crash
caused by a user writting direct to video-memory
> Also, for the WinTrolls, this is your chance! Take it! Take Linux, and crash
> the hell out of it, the way Linux-users can while using Windows!
No they let Windows users crash them selves
------------------------------
From: Jim Dabell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux bugs!!!
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:22:53 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mig Mig wrote:
>
> Cihl wrote:
> > This is a follow-up of the thread "Nice link" which was started by me :-)
> > I wish to propose the following challenge for everyone:
> >
> > Find a way, ANY way of crashing the entire Linux operating system while
> > operating as a non-root user! Please post anything you can find in this
> > thread. I'm sure many people will be interested!
>
> Thats rather easy by reading the kernel mailing list.. i remneber one crash
> caused by a user writting direct to video-memory
And exactly how could a normal user do that? You need special
permissions to write directly to video ram.
Jim
------------------------------
From: Richard Corfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: OT:RANT:Long: If anyone develops an IDE for Linux PLEASE NO PROJECT FILES
(or MDI for that matter)
Date: 01 Apr 2000 20:58:45 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) writes:
> One issue that Visual C++ does not do very well -- although 6.0
> is at least usable -- is source control, in the sense that
> which of the half-dozen project control files should be controlled?
>
> Project.dsp, yes.
> Project.dsw, no. (Note that VC++ 6 will look for a .dsw if a .dsp is
> opened, and open it as well.)
> ncb.opt ??
> and a few others which I don't remember (I use VC++ at work).
I've noticed that a number of VB objects have .dsw's and other
dependant files too. These new parametric data environments are an
example and I don't know (nor does Source Safe I think) which ones
have to be source controlled.
> Also, Makefile is a wonderful method by which to store information
> about a project -- or a terrible one. It's wonderful that there's
> no fixed requirements. It's terrible that there's no fixed requirements.
> Depends on what side of the issue one is on. :-)
It becomes fun with reuse. In an old job I used CVS modules to help
keep track of what reused what (like shared objects in SourceSafe
which is how its done in my current job.) Using Java this worked well
because the modules just checked out different parts of the package
tree which being uniquely and hierarchically named never conflicted
with eachother.
Though I've not tried any there are meant to be programs that scan
through your C source to build a makefile for you - reading all the
#includes to work out the dependancy tree. Java has its wonderful way
of doing it for you assuming that CLASSPATH is fine (another niceity
of checking everything out into one package hierarchy as it all has
one CLASSPATH root)
> (I'm tinkering with a hierarchical project of my own; my
> organizational structure is a series of DLLs which can interrelate
> with each other -- and I'll be building executables later, in a
> different area of the source tree. My main problem right now is
> that higher-level directories have to be built in a certain order,
> as opposed to letting them build via $(wildcard *) or something.
I'm getting used to the way Window's run-time loader works now and how
to debug across VB projects.
> * * *
>
> [Form widgets]
I've wondered why they weren't carried over into things like Java.
They were powerful though. Java's BorderLayout can be quite powerful
if you don't mind a bit of nesting.
> ADO widgets are fun to work with, within their constraints.
> "Here, have a query -- instant spreadsheet!" However, I've yet
> to look under the hood to see how gory the guts are -- I'm afraid to!
It looks like MS Access without the form and report designer but with
a GUI library instead - quite handy for quick data access
problems. Maybe trying to apply it to a large object orientated
project in which we don't want to pass RecordSets around is not a good
idea.
> Nobody should fear code. Ideally, nobody should fear Microsoft, either.
Its a language I supose. You try to express yourself in it - though
its frustrating at times (I was getting quite angry with it).
A current problem I'm having in another MS Access project is trying to
detect if a field is empty. I may try looking at the text box on the
form rather than the database field. According to the debugger
initials.Value=Null yet the following IF block doesn't trigger
IF initials.Value = Null OR initials.Value = "" Then
...
Endif
I've tried the various vbNull, vbNullString, IS NULL, IS NOTHING, =
NOTHING with various failures. Also note that I've coded based on
shortcut OR which apparently VB doesn't do - but surely if the left is
true then the result should be independant of the right (or did I read
somewhere that nulls in boolean algebra upset things?)
Chz
- Richard.
--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard Corfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
_/ _/ _/ _/ Web Page, CV: http://www.littondale.freeserve.co.uk
_/_/ _/ _/ Dance (Ballroom, RnR), Hiking, SJA, Linux, ... [ENfP]
_/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ PGP2.6 Key ID:0x0FB084B1 GPG/PGP5 Key ID:0xFA139DA7
------------------------------
From: Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux bugs!!!
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 22:44:36 +0200
Jim Dabell wrote:
> Mig Mig wrote:
> >
> > Cihl wrote:
> > > This is a follow-up of the thread "Nice link" which was started by me :-)
> > > I wish to propose the following challenge for everyone:
> > >
> > > Find a way, ANY way of crashing the entire Linux operating system while
> > > operating as a non-root user! Please post anything you can find in this
> > > thread. I'm sure many people will be interested!
> >
> > Thats rather easy by reading the kernel mailing list.. i remneber one crash
> > caused by a user writting direct to video-memory
>
> And exactly how could a normal user do that? You need special
> permissions to write directly to video ram.
Try search the kernel archives.. im sure Alan Cox discussed the problem in
around may-june 1999
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 14:08:51 -0800
From: Bob Lyday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 has "issues"
Matt Chiglinsky wrote:
>
> On Fri, 31 Mar 2000 21:08:37 -0500,
> Robert Morelli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >How shall I say this delicately? Well, to borrow Microsoft's own words,
> >Windows 2000 has "issues." Now, let's not be judgemental of those less
> >fortunate. Every OS has emotional needs, and Windows 2000 is not the only
> >OS with problems "adjusting." DOS had "issues." Windows 3.1 had "issues."
> >Windows 98 and Windows CE have "issues."
>
> Perhaps the next bug-pack, I mean fixpack, should include therapy.exe or
>digitalprozac.exe? Just a thought...
--
Bob
"640K ought to be enough for anybody", Bill Gates, displaying
his visionary mind (date unknown).
Remove ".diespammersdie" to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Douglas E. Mitton)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 22:23:11 GMT
Yes, I agree with some things on your list ...
- Windows users never have to deal with partitioning. That is one of
the toughest concepts the new Linux installer has to contend with.
Now, buy it pre-installed and its as easy as buying a computer with
Windows pre-installed! :-)
- Knowing your hardware. The typical windows user has no idea what
hardware is inside the box at all. They know the general stuff,
speed, processor, HD size, CD, floppy and sound. Linux users
generally have to know what is "in" their "box"!
The biggest solution to these problems that I've been able to see is:
- Don't buy an old Linux book from a discount book store that may be
5+ years out of date and try to install that distribution. Definetly
don't think thats state-of-the-art for Linux. Have you ever used
Windows 3.0? <shudder> :-)
- Get a recent distribution, a few minutes research on the net will
get you that. Pick up a Linux magazine (or 2 or 3). Lurk in the
Usenet groups for awhile. Get involved with your local Linux User
Group or cultivate a friendship with someone with some experience at
Linux.
- Expect to do some research to learn how your new system works. No
one is born comfortable with Windows. Generally, you just don't
remember the long painful learning curve you had. A typical Linux
distribution is huge and there are many things that you have to get
working. Windows doesn't come "stock" with nearly as much "stuff" as
Linux. Linux tries hard to be everything to everyone and so it is a
little more complex. I personally found the work worth it.
Good luck!
JOE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What are the 10 things about Linux you wish you knew before you got a
>copy and started installing?
>
>Here is my list
>Partitioning
>Modem - which one
>funny names for everything, usually start with k
>KDE, Gnome, Debian, GPL etc - do I really need to know all this - I just
>want it to not crash
>Root & User - Oh, I'm both, maybe.
>Soundcard - it don't like me anymore
>Mouse - got one of those wheel mouse...
>Dual Boot - just in case
>Samba - gotta talk to tne PCs
>Kppp
>CD writers don't like me anymore either
>
>This is a much a "what is good about Linux" as a 'I figured it out and I
>am happy / proud / smug / cooler than the other guy at work" list.
>
>Please post replies to the group(s), it is a discussion afterall.
>JOE
------------------------------------------------
Doug Mitton - Brockville, Ontario, Canada
'City of the Thousand Islands'
EMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cybertap.com/dmitton
Other: mitton.dyndns.org
SPAM Reduction: Remove "x." from my domain.
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "JAS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: distribpricing
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:45:12 -0800
Hello to all,
I am wanting to get opinions from Linux users about the rising costs of both
Caldera and Red Hat Linux distributions. I use both Red Hat and Caldera 2.3
and like them much better than NT (I am an MCSE). My concern however is
that the rising prices of these distributions will compromise the spirit of
Linux. I have enjoyed offering small businesses great opportunities to have
quality information systems using Linux (Samba, Sendmail, Ipchains, etc.).
Hopefully in the future Linux will still be the choice that smaller
businesses can opt for rather than spending a lot of money for NT and (even
more trying) to keep it running as stable as NT.
I appreiciate your imput.
JAS
------------------------------
From: Daniel O'Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: linux users group?
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 17:56:04 +0200
Paul Gowder wrote:
>
> Hiya -- I'm wondering if anyone knows of a linux users group or some similar
> organization in the boston area.
>
> thanks,
> -Paul
>
> The address "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" goes directly to the trash.
> (anti-spam mechanism) replace "null" with "paul" to reach me.
>
> "Oh, it's just a mob war: go back to sleep honey."
> -Marge Simpson (on my favorite episode)
Here is one that I found on Yahoo!.
http://www.blu.org
-Dan O'Nolan
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 has "issues"
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 17:56:33 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> Wow, could you have shown your lack of a clue any clearer?
>
> mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Robert Morelli wrote:
> >
> > This is so typical Microsoft programming. Some dweeb, not knowing how
> > something should work, simply hard-codes some arbitrary number rather
> > than taking the time to understand the problem.
>
> This is not a case of an arbitrary number hard coded. There is no such "51"
> IP limit with the server. The problem is that on machines that are Domain
> Controllers, if you go over 51 IP's, the server stops authenticating.
First you say there is no limit, then you say you go over some number
and something stops working. I would call that a limit. What vocabulary
word would you like to use as a synonym?
> This
> doesn't happen on non-domain controller machines. An ISP isn't going to be
> running their domain controller on their web server, and in fact anyone
> doing so is pretty stupid. You don't put your domain controller outside the
> firewall (and you wouldn't have 52 IP's on an internal intranet web server,
> this is for use with multiple domain hosting which is pretty much internet
> based).
It does not matter. This is not an expected or reasonable behavior of a
system like this. Why, again, "51?"
>
> It's a non-issue for anyone that's security conscious. Which is probably
> why MS doesn't much care about the issue, since if this hits you, you're
> doing something wrong.
You say that now, but in the months to come when Microsoft fixes this
bug, you will tout it as something that proves it is scalable.
>
> > Almost every version of every MS product has suffered from this very
> > problem, exhibited in some form. With direct draw, it was screen size,
> > with Windows 95, it is the number of Window handles, etc.
>
> DirectDraw never had any such issue. The version of DirectDraw in NT4 prior
> to SP4 had a limit, this was not DirectDraw itself (in other words, it was
> an implementation bug, not a bug in the design of DirectDraw).
Exactly. The implementation of DirectDraw on NT originally had a 640x480
limit. (Who would want more than that?) Then when people complained,
they upped the limit to 2048x2048 (Who would want more than that?)
Microsoft's thinking has, is, and will always be "Why would anyone ever
want more than 640K?" That's why you will always see this sort of
ridiculousness in every single MS product. More often than not they are
locked in the offices trying to code to a market driven deadline and
making up stupid stuff to meet the deadline that inevitably slips. I
have work with Microsoft, they really do believe that "There is no time
to do it right, but there is always time to do it again."
>
> Windows 95 also had no arbitray number of window handles limit. Windows 3.x
> and 9x had a fixed size (64k) heap for USER handles, which include menu
> handles, window handles, etc. How many Windows you could open was variable,
> depending on what was actually in each window. The 64K limit was not
> "arbitrary" either, since it was a direct result of the 16 bit code in
> Windows 3.x and 9x.
It was arbitrary because even back in Windows 3.x days there were ways
around it. Or are these "geniuses" at microsoft so unskilled that they
could not handle "far" pointers? Or even understand rudimentary data
structures well enough? FYI, one could use 32bit segments in Windows
3.x, all one needed to do was use a segment override. It was easy, and
documented. So, why did MS have problems with 16 bits? (in their own
OS?)
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
lobster"
------------------------------
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