Linux-Advocacy Digest #48, Volume #26 Sun, 9 Apr 00 17:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: These OS debates are simply Hillarious! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Win2000 kicks ass (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: These OS debates are simply Hillarious! (Jim Richardson)
Enjoyable Little Story (Robert Heininger)
Re: Which distro for server?? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS supporters. (Jim
Richardson)
Re: Enjoyable Little Story (Cihl)
Re: These OS debates are simply Hillarious! (2:1)
Re: A true story about benchmarks (2:1)
Re: About GNU kernels (2:1)
Re: Looking forward to Apple's MacOX X (Gregory L. Hansen)
Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS supporters.
("Keith T. Williams")
Re: You anti-Microsoft types just don't get it, do you? ("Keith T. Williams")
Re: Looking forward to Apple's MacOX X (Thingfishhhh)
Re: benchmark for speed in linux / windows (Bart Oldeman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: These OS debates are simply Hillarious!
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:08:17 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Shadow Hunter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on Sun, 09 Apr 2000 03:52:26 -0400
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>In addition, it seems that M$ has pulled a lot of the
>>networking functionality out of Windows ME.
>
>
>From the way I've heard supposedly it's only going to support a 10
>computer peer-to-peer network. Now, realisticly this should be all
>anyone needs.
"640K ought to be enough for anybody". -- Bill Gates, ca 1981
:-)
[rest snipped]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Win2000 kicks ass
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:12:17 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, chewing_gum
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on Sun, 02 Apr 2000 20:44:02 +0100
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Hi there
>
>Had this installed for a month now. Superb, no hangs, no crashes..
>....beautiful piece of software. Well done Bill.
>Linux for the desktop? Never.
*shrug* Whatever floats your boat.
Your post was posted to comp.os.LINUX.advocacy, so we do wonder.
>
>cheers
>bob
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- MS Boat 2.23. Only floats on MS Water 1.2.
Be careful when using MS Engine 1.66.1. :-)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: These OS debates are simply Hillarious!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:14:40 GMT
On Sun, 09 Apr 2000 03:52:26 -0400,
Shadow Hunter, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>>In addition, it seems that M$ has pulled a lot of the networking functionality
>>out of Windows ME.
>
>
>From the way I've heard supposedly it's only going to support a 10
>computer peer-to-peer network. Now, realisticly this should be all
>anyone needs. Although, if it only supports peer-to-peer networking
>then MS is also expecting businesses to run Windows 2000 Professional
>at all the Client computers? I think this may be the changing in the
>tide for Linux. I can see it now over the horizon.
>
>Shadow Hunter
10 may be a big number now, but when the i-appliance craze takes off. (which
it will, almost guaranteed.) It won't seem so big. Plus, given that it's
peer to peer only, will the Windows ME network be able to do NAT and
Masq/Forwarding duties?
After all, there was a time when 640k was a lot of ram :)
"Mom! I need to do homework but my school pad won't work 'cause Timmy's
watching TV on his E-pad!"
Of course. There are no such limits with Linux or FreeBSD.
I wonder if the limit is 10 ips on the peer network? that would mean that
W-ME would stop working pretty fast in a heterogenous network.
It also means that small companies will not be able to use W-ME for work,
but must spend the extra $$ for W2K Pro, (as you have allready noted, but I
think it's worth repeating.)
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robert Heininger)
Subject: Enjoyable Little Story
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:14:28 GMT
A little feast for the Win_Trolletts here in C.O.L.A.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: dlabs
Subject: Re: Tears over victims of robber barons
Here is a little story:
There is this gas company (lets call it Chevsoft) and they own
(claimed they invented but actually stolen - but that is aother story) ALL
of the gasoline refinerys, gasoline stations in the world etc.. AND also
made cars. You, of course can buy a car from someone else, but you need
thier gas to run it. Now you can buy a different type of fuel (propane,
kerosene etc = unix, linux etc) but you car won't work as well or at all
with these other fuels. And somehow the Chevsoft cars always seem to run a
little better, or that is what they tell everyone. Now let's suppose that
Chevsoft, just to make every thing fair (actually to sell more gas)
published everything about how to build a car that runs on their gas, even
sold Chevsoft car kits. But here's the catch. The plans don't tell you a
few certain important details, or every once in while they change the gas
a little bit, and don't let anyone know etc..OR the kits that they sell,
are missing a few essential pieces (but they will sell you a set of plans
on how to make the missing parts, even offer classes or big $$$$ on how to
make the parts). NOW, lets say that you spend all this time and money
(millions of hours and dollars) building your own car, and it gets out
that you car is a LOT faster/better/easier to use, and everyone wants to
BUY your car, and you start selling them, A LOT of them, so much that
Chevsoft takes notice (they might even visit you and offer to buy your
little company, and while talking about it you show them some of your new
design ideas)
Everything is going great, when all of a sudden you stop by your local
gas station to get some recently advertised new and improved gas and
Chevsoft is now GIVING AWAY their new cars with every full tank of gas
purchase. and somehow you can't just buy the gas, but you have to take
their car too. You don't want their car, but some accident happens while
you are getting your gas, your car gets destroyed, and you end up driving
home in the FREE car, that okay because you can make another one of your
own cars, AND besides you have a new design that it SO MUCH better. The
next thing you know Chevsoft hires the world famous rock band Rolling
Pebbles for 21 gigamillion dollars to announce they have a totally
different NEW gas they have just developed (they told you in advance), AND
a BRAND NEW car (they didn't tell you about this, not available yet, but
very soon) that that looks exactly like your new design. The new gas costs
a little more, but is SO SO MUCH better. You and all the other little (but
very profitable) car companys rush to design new models for the new gas.
Your new design is already done, BUT it doesn't work with the new gas for
some reason , but all the other car makers new designs work with the new
gas. It must be something wrong with your design, BUT, you find out that
they, secretly and deliberately changed the gas slighly so it wouldn't
work specifically in your new design. You take them to court while they
start selling LOTS of NEW gas for other little car makers new designs. No
one really notices but you, that it takes Chevsoft many years to actually
get their new design to market. In the mean time, you just go out of
business because you spent all your money paying lawers to fight THEM for
stealing your ideas, instead of building your new design. YEARS later
after this happens to lots of other little companies, the GOVERNMENT comes
in, investigates, (you and your out of buiness friends, get to tell your
little story to congress) determines that Chevsoft has been breaking the
law, suggests they can't make and sell cars anymore. Two days later the
president of Chevsoft (by now the richest man in the world by the way)
visits the President of THE GOVERNMENT. ALL the people in the GOVERNMENT
except one, say since I and lots of other people have gotten VERY VERY
rich off of this Chevsoft company lets just leave things just the way they
are. (At least until after November anyway) And everyone lives happily
ever after.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
Robert Heininger __
# / / __ _ _ _ _ __ __ #
(o- # / /__ / / / \// //_// \ \/ / #
//\ # /____/ /_/ /_/\/ /___/ /_/\_\ #
v_/_ # The Choice of the GNU Generation #
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Which distro for server??
Date: 9 Apr 2000 14:15:16 -0500
In article <mZOH4.4470$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Bloody Viking <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>JoeX1029 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>: Iam putting up a web server as soon as my DSL is installed and I was wondering
>: which distro would make the best server. So far i have RedHat 5.1, 5.2 Caldera
>: OpenLinux Lite 1.2 with Start Office and Linux Pro 4.1 and hoping to accuire
>: GNU/Debian and TurboLinux. Also i might soon have Solaris 2.4 (or is that 2.6,
>: oh weel i don't remember)
>
>Any of these distributions can work as a server just fine.
If you have the bandwidth to download a full distribution, the
modified RedHat at ftp://ftp.valinux.com/pub/software/VALinux/6.1.3
is very solid, although for some reason they still haven't merged
in the updates in a parallel directory.
I'd recommend compiling your own apache from source if you want
a web server on any platform, though. Apache is really a
toolkit of modules and it is worth building exactly what
you need.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS supporters.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:23:05 GMT
On 9 Apr 2000 12:55:29 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], in the persona of
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>In alt.destroy.microsoft fmc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>:
>
>: computer or three? That's why Windows is optimized for the inexperienced
>: user.
>:
>
>How can an operating system be 'optimized' for an 'inexperienced user'?
>By definition an 'inexperienced user's knowledge is unpredictable, so how
>can you optimize for unpredictability?
>
Simple. Limit the options :)
W9X and the other "consumer" grade M$ OSen, are severly limited in what
they can do. Doesn't stop them being a PITA to use sometimes, but at least
for the real basic stuff, they are somewhat easy.
(Linux with KDE is now easier IMHO.)
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Enjoyable Little Story
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:26:33 GMT
A very entertaining story. It seems to sound familiar, though. Is it a true
story? :-)
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: These OS debates are simply Hillarious!
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 20:48:57 +0100
> I wonder if the limit is 10 ips on the peer network? that would mean that
> W-ME would stop working pretty fast in a heterogenous network.
> It also means that small companies will not be able to use W-ME for work,
> but must spend the extra $$ for W2K Pro, (as you have allready noted, but I
> think it's worth repeating.)
Of course. Why would they only want to sell cheap software. They will want as many
people as posible to fork out the extraa cash.
-Ed
>
> --
> Jim Richardson
> Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
> WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
> Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
--
Did you know that the oldest known rock is the famous Hackenthorpe rock, which
is over three trillion years old?
-The Hackenthorpe Book of Lies
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A true story about benchmarks
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 20:51:47 +0100
Terry Porter wrote:
> Until I found Linux, I *always* was frustrated by searching for files.
> Now files have become just a "locate" away!
I hardly use that even, since most files are where you expect them to be, due to a
logical file structure.
--
Did you know that the oldest known rock is the famous Hackenthorpe rock, which
is over three trillion years old?
-The Hackenthorpe Book of Lies
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: About GNU kernels
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 20:53:14 +0100
Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> Care to name any examples?
>
> If Linux is so difficult to maintain, why is it the most-ported OS of
> all time?
NetBsd is more ported.
-Ed
>
> [snip]
>
> > > The GPL is just one way to make a living with Linux. Applix sells
> > > software which is not GPL, which runs on Linux, they are making a
> > > profit. What is bizarre about that? Once you think about it, they only
> > > bizarre thing is that there is no need to pay Microsoft for what can
> > > only be called "sub-standard" software.
> > >
> >
> > I am interested in knowing more about Applix and the
> > ways to escape GPL.
>
> Read the LGPL.
>
> --
> The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
> Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
--
Did you know that the oldest known rock is the famous Hackenthorpe rock, which
is over three trillion years old?
-The Hackenthorpe Book of Lies
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gregory L. Hansen)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Looking forward to Apple's MacOX X
Date: 9 Apr 2000 20:00:05 GMT
In article <FL1I4.177644$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Rex Riley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I don't think we're communicating! Less than 30 days ago you broadcast
>Apple "*irrelevent* in a world increasingly centered around a Linux
>standard." (your words)
I just had a thought. I've heard that BSD has a Linux compatibility
option. If MacOS X is based on BSD, does that mean MacOS X will also have
a BSD compatibility option?
--
"Ballpark nachos -- you don't buy them, you just rent them." -- Hank Hill
------------------------------
From: "Keith T. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS
supporters.
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 16:09:06 -0400
So are you guys so afraid of windows?
Majordomo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > They are still free to make whatever choice they wish.
> > If Linux is not strong enough stand on it's own accord then that is
> > Linux's problem, not mine.
> >
> > You must believe it is not strong enough, because you seem to have a
> > need to jump to it's defense all the time.
> >
> > There are probably more Windows/Microsot "sucks" type groups and web
> > sites than there are for Linux and it hasn't seemed to hurt Windows
> > sales at all.
> >
> > Steve
>
> People only attack that which they fear, hence by your attacks on Linux,
its
> users, and its advocates, you obviously are fearful about linux for some
reason.
>
> -NateGrey
> "Fear the Penguins"
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Keith T. Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: You anti-Microsoft types just don't get it, do you?
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 16:18:48 -0400
CG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> This is very true, but it ignores the fact that most people don't
> install windows on their machines, it comes already installed. if
> they had to go out and buy windows installation cd's they'd be just as
> frustrated and confused as people who don't know what they are doing
> and try to install linux.
>
> frankly, while windows installations can go smoothly, often they do
> not, and when they don't, they are a whole hell of a lot harder to
> figure out then linux installations.
>
> if new computers came installed with linux booting right into the x
> windows environment, the average consumer wouldn't know the
> difference. I know because I've set up "idiot" linux installations
> and they work just fine.
>
> it is probably true that it's a little easier to add software willy
> nilly to a windows machine, but this is part of the curse as well,
> because nothing screws up a windows machine faster and more completely
> than adding every crap installation, trial demo, applet etc. that
> comes along. they can't be uninstalled half the time and eventually
> they bring down the whole o/s. can't happen in linux.
>
> oh, and linux has no viruses.
YET.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 00:38:21 GMT, "Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >The goal should be to make the computer easy to use. People just want to
> >turn it on, and use it to get their work done. Most people don't care
how
> >it works. They just want to check email, and cruise the web. They don't
> >want to dwell on how large to make the /var partition.
> >
> >
> >> You know about partitions. I know about partitions. The typical
> >> Windows user knows C:\windows and that's it.
> >>Example of people not knowing what they are doing. They're $.10/dozen
> >>anymore thanks to Windows.
> >
> >>True, but it is the reality of the situation and a point the
> >>Linvocates fail to be able to grasp.
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
From: Thingfishhhh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Looking forward to Apple's MacOX X
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 13:28:54 -0700
In article <8co3k7$7l5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Jensen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thingfishhhh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> : It's not that flawed to me - I've seen some kit cars that looked GREAT
> : at car shows and at local meets, and some that looked aweful - their
> : looks depend entirely on the guy putting it together, and his
> : experience
> : and creativity and willingness to go the extra mile to make it work -
> : kinda like the Linux community, to me. If the developers go the extra
> : mile, and put in the midnight oil, they get a better UI. If they don't,
> : they get dreck.
>
> I wonder if it is a coincidence that I like Linux, AND I've been down to
> test drive one of these:
>
> http://www.autocourseinc.com/
>
> John
Nice. I saw one bombing down the road yesterday. Looks like fun.
I would'nt mind a reproduction Cobra, myself, but I'm not much of a
mechanic. I can fix stuff, but building a whole car is probably beyond
my abilities. A Cobra is probably beyond my driving abilities as well,
but one can dream.
I saw a show on TNN yesterday after Shadetree Mechanic. (I had it on as
I was puttering around, it's a cool show) where two guys built a 30's
roadster. Of course, they made it look REAL easy, but i know from
friends and relatives how much work it really is. My friend Ken was
building a hot rod, and i saw how much money and time it takes. And my
cousin is married to a guy who built GREAT cars. He ran the National
Auto Review for years, and has a Model-T hot rod that was on the cover
of Hot Rod several times and won countless best of show trophies. But he
told me how much work went into it. (It has a HUGE blown engine,
home-made brass pipes, original front end with motorcycle tires, a
chromed jag rear with Indy racing slicks, and a heavily customized body.
The kind of car when you crank it up, there's so much torque it almost
flips onto it's side.)
(It's for sale, last time i heard. It's in Mamaroneck, NY, if anyone is
interested) (grin)
--
"go sell your salted fish." Ho You Kong, Feb 16, 2000
------------------------------
From: Bart Oldeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: benchmark for speed in linux / windows
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:33:57 GMT
On Sun, 9 Apr 2000, Jim Richardson wrote:
> >I've assigned a key between "Ctrl" and "Alt" containing a certain logo t=
o
> >"Meta" ;-)=20
> How can I do this?
Relevant line of /etc/X11/XF86Config
XkbSymbols "en_US(pc105)+gb"
For US keyboards it's probably en_US(pc104) instead.
This maps:
left windows key to meta
right windows key to multi_key: right-windows ' e produces =E9 (e accent
aigu).
the menu key produces "menu". I use it for "goto-line" in emacs like this:
(global-set-key '[menu] 'goto-line) in .emacs
> For me, Vim rules, I keep trying Emacs, and it does have some really inte=
resting
> features, but the program is huge, and every time I come across a neat fe=
ature,
> I either find that Vim can do it too, or that another small program will,=
and I=20
> usually prefer to do it with a bunch of small programs, rather than some=
=20
> monolithic beast. I think I am just too set in my ways with Vim now. :)
> (ed/edlin sucks IMHO)
The first weeks I used MS-DOS (in 1990) I went through the whole manual,
and learned about EDLIN, DEBUG and ANSI screen codes. Obviously, I didn't
understand everything (esp. DEBUG ;-). I was sort of amazed at EDLIN's
"user-friendliness" but had no other editor. Later, I usually used the
quick editor (q) or Borland's internal Turbo Pascal/C/Basic editor.
In Linux, it's vi(m) or mcedit for small stuff, pico for e-mails (since
that's with pine) and emacs for larger edits (programming, latex).=20
I find emacs + auctex a really nice environment for doing latex stuff:
C-c C-c fires up latex on the current files and shows errors, and if it's
fine I can view the result about a few seconds later in the xdvi window
(latex is _so_ quick these days. one of the programs where you really
see the increase in computer power :-).
The not so many times I've used Windows (mainly for games), I was usually
so stubborn to still use q.exe and mess up long file names. On a
University machine running win 3.11 I was surprised to see that notepad
didn't want to edit files larger than 64K ;-)
For you migrating DOS/Win users who find it difficult to get used to
emacs, add the following to your .emacs:
(custom-set-variables
'(kill-whole-line t)
'(display-time-day-and-date t)
'(view-scroll-auto-exit nil t)
'(pc-select-meta-moves-sexps t)
'(scroll-step 1)
'(lazy-lock-defer-on-the-fly nil)
'(pc-select-override-scroll-error t)
'(column-number-mode t)
'(frame-background-mode (quote light))
'(visible-bell t)
'(display-time-24hr-format t)
'(global-font-lock-mode t nil (font-lock))
'(pc-selection-mode t nil (pc-select))
'(scroll-bar-mode (quote right)))
(custom-set-faces)
(display-time)
(setq scroll-preserve-screen-position t)
This will among other things enable shift+arrow keys marking, home, end,
etc, behave as expected. shift+del=3Dcut, shift+ins=3Dpaste, etc., while
preserving the normal emacs keys from the left-bottom main part
of your keyboard.
Bart
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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