Linux-Advocacy Digest #48, Volume #34 Mon, 30 Apr 01 03:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product ("Interconnect")
Re: What percentage of open-source programmers are paid for working on open-source
projects? ("Interconnect")
Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product (Donn Miller)
Re: bank switches from using NT 4 ("Boris Dynin")
Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product (Chad Everett)
Re: there's always a bigger fool (Zippy)
Re: there's always a bigger fool (Zippy)
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: there's always a bigger fool (Zippy)
Re: there's always a bigger fool (Zippy)
Re: Microsoft hit new security 'level' :-) (GreyCloud)
Re: Endeavour shuttle and windows (GreyCloud)
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts (GreyCloud)
Re: Windows 2000 - It is an excellent product (Chad Everett)
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts (GreyCloud)
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts (GreyCloud)
Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts (GreyCloud)
Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product (Chad Everett)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:21:11 +1000
Jan Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3aec34de$0$41608$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> A decent command line interface? Um... what is it you can't do from the
> command line (that you couldn't do easier/faster from the GUI)???
Find a particular user or process and Kill that process ID. VERY simple with
CLI and an absolute joke under Win2K. Not to mention *slow* connections with
Terminal Services Client compared to telnet.
I guess with the GUI you can *hide* your lack of knowledge, with CLI you
have to be *switched on* about your work.
------------------------------
From: "Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What percentage of open-source programmers are paid for working on
open-source projects?
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 14:25:11 +1000
Dave Martel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> This came up in alt.comp.shareware.authors. I'm sure some work on
> their projects on company time and some projects are company projects
> (StarOffice), but have always been under the impression that the vast
> majority worked for the love of programming. Anyone know?
>
Don't forget the *glory* of having your name in Lights :)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 00:37:44 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product
GreyCloud wrote:
> Even beginning windows users have to read a book and to practice to
> become proficient in windows use. The same applies to Linux for new
> beginners. Let's see you handle MVS or VMS. Where would you start?
See, that's a big issue with the Windows advocates/users: "ease of
use", and "it supports my {strange,exotic} HW". Also a big issue is
application availability. Nothing is really said about the quality of
the OS underneath, only HW support, ease of use, and the apps that are
available.
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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------------------------------
From: "Boris Dynin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: bank switches from using NT 4
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 21:44:52 -0700
> I don't think that is the case. We only access a few methods, using the
> http component to pull some content from our old reliable apache
> server that would have been too complicated to duplicate in VB,
> and the xslt (transformNode) method to turn some xml from a
> local data server into html. All the pages work when tested under
> light to medium load, and in fact I cannot reproduce the failures.
> However, each IIS server will crash several times during the
> day and get into a mode were it appears that things that need
> xml processing are blocked. Generally it keeps accepting connections
> and serving static pages, but since most of our site requires some
> xml processing or the pass-through html, it is basically dead.
I don't know what to suggest. I've never used MSXML3.DLL.
A thing that comes to mind is for you to emulate heavy load: use scripts
written in Silk, for example. Than use a group of client machines to emulate
heavy load with those scripts. Also, there could be some helpful tools in
W2k Reskit or some 3rd party tools (but those are most likely very
expensive).
When I worked on MyTalk web site our QA was using sophisticated test scripts
written in VB and Silk.
Boris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 29 Apr 2001 23:35:32 -0500
On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:16:53 +0200, JoFi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On 26 Apr 2001 23:57:08 -0500, Jan Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
><snip>
>> >
>>
>> Remember Windows costs money, you'll have to buy additional software to
>> make Windows even functional, and you'll have to spend even more money
>> in the form of time after that, unless your time is worth nothing.
>>
>>
>
>
>The reason I use Windows is because of its functionality out of the box. The
>more Microsoft add to this the better.
>
>For Linux I would have to read manuals, configure text files etc etc for
>software which has very poor functionality and usability.
>
>You call this functional?
>
I use Solaris, W2K, Windows NT, and Linux so I am qualified to say that
what you've said is idiotic.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: there's always a bigger fool
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Zippy)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:26:04 GMT
i must have been thinking of the playstation 2 that people are discussing
below. i don't know much about gaming machines, and probably never will.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: there's always a bigger fool
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Zippy)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:34:08 GMT
motherboard and bios manufacturers are the ones who have to maintain
backward compatibility, not microsoft. it would be possible right now to
build a machine that has a modern PCI bus and architecture, that would boot
windows or NT just fine, without any of the backward compatibility. they
choose not to do it because there are still a few out there running old
versions of novell and dos, who want to speed up their systems without
upgrading the OS. and more power to them.
>Guffaw. Yes, monopolization is a bitch. That isn't the result of any
>supposed short-sightedness of the past. 'Backward compatibility' is a
>code phrase for "violations of the Sherman Act".
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 00:38:24 -0500
"hac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "Jonadab the Unsightly One" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > That's silly. All you need is to queue the upgrade to
> > > > > any given page until nobody's looking at it.
> > > >
> > > > And you magically know when nobody is looking at it, how?
> > >
> > > The OS should know that.
> >
> > It should? I didn't realize they had optical sensors that allowed the
> > terminals to notice when someone was looking at the terminal or not.
> >
> Even an idiot should realize that no one is looking at a page that
> isn't displayed. Ergo, pages not displayed may be updated. Which is
> what he clearly intended to convey, before you went out of your way to
> be obtuse and argumentative. Unless, of course, you really are that
> stupid. You seem bent on convincing everyone that you are.
How exactly do you "update the page" of a standalone application?
His argument was about how a single app on a server accessed by terminals is
easier to maintain than an HTML based system.
My argument is that yes, you can update the exe in one fell swoop, but
getting every terminal to be using that updated exe is not quite so easy in
a 24x7 environment because you can't just kill the app because it might be
in use.
I still don't understand what you or he are trying to say exactly, since you
can't update a "page" in a standalone exe.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: there's always a bigger fool
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Zippy)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:42:20 GMT
this is a matter of opinion and speculation, not what anybody "knows about
computing." if you think splitting up microsoft is going to harm them, or
end their predominance in the computer world, YOU haven't learned anything
about monopolies.
take a look at other monopolies which have been split up. what are the
largest oil companies in the world? the spawn of standard oil. what are the
largest telecommunications companies? the spawn of at&t.
don't delude yourself. you will be disappointed.
this is not to say that splitting up monopolies isn't a good thing. it's a
very good thing for everybody - including the companies which are divided.
it allows others to compete, and ends the stagnancy of the monopoly.
>You haven't learned anything about computing if you think this is true.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Re: there's always a bigger fool
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Zippy)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 05:50:53 GMT
it's not too common for machines, particularly PCs, to be defined by the
hardware. if you point to a box and say "it's a PC", people naturally
assume it's running dos or win9x.
it's much more useful to point to a box and say, "it's an NT box". at that
point, somebody will ask you "an x86", or "intel"? and at that point you
can clarify by describing the CPU. "no a quad alpha" or "no an athlon" or
"yeah, p75"
if you want to define a machine by its architecture, you're going to end up
in a lot of confusing conversations.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft hit new security 'level' :-)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:32:44 -0700
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > >
> > > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:9cbcsl$adm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > >> Now it says 'security fix files' have been infected with a
> virus.
> > > How
> > > > > > >> does this not substantiate my subject? What's an admin supposed
> to
> > > do?
> > > > > As
> > > > > > >> soon as they hear about a patch for a security bug they should
> > > download
> > > > > > >> and install. Next thing they know their systems are infected.
> It is
> > > > > hard
> > > > > > >> enough keeping up with Microsoft security patches (over 2
> security
> > > bugs
> > > > > > >> per week in 2000 for Microsoft software - a record) without
> having
> > > to
> > > > > > >> check if they are infected as well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How is 2 bugs a week a record? I see dozens of patches a week
> to
> > > Linux.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you find keeping up with MS patches difficult, you must be
> > > literally
> > > > > > > livid about keeping up with Linux patches.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Have you ever used UNIX before, because most people will know is
> that
> > > as
> > > > > > soon as a fix becomes available, the company/distro posts it,
> compared
> > > to
> > > > > > Microsoft where you have to wait 3 months for a service pack that
> is
> > > not
> > > > > > guaranteed to fix the problems you are facing. I would rather
> more
> > > > > > patches, than waiting in limbo for two months hoping that my
> server
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > crash because I was waiting for the next service pack to be
> released.
> > > > >
> > > > > What does that have to do with "keeping up" with the number of
> fixes?
> > > > >
> > > > > In any event, MS releases "hot fixes". There are quite a few of
> them,
> > > and
> > > > > they come out between service packs.
> > > >
> > > > If one goes to MS site... do you get routed to these hot fixes???
> > >
> > > Why should everyone be routed to hot fixes just for going to the
> microsoft
> > > site?
> > >
> > > If you mean, can you easily find them in a single place? Yes.
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/
> > >
> > > Just click Downloads.
> >
> > In actuality, my IBM for the windows side has an embedded link for
> > hardware driver downloads and another one to MS for O/S download issues.
> > On the Solaris side of my IBM, Sun has embedded into Netscape a link to
> > their site for O/S download issues. All I have to do is click on these
> > as well. These also include minor issues as well, which makes me happy
> > to at least look and see if I really need it.
>
> And MS has the Windows Update icon you can click.
Yes, that is the one for MS for O/S download issues. I check it once in
a while.
The IBM one is rare to change.
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Endeavour shuttle and windows
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:40:36 -0700
pip wrote:
>
> Marcello Barboni wrote:
> > On sci.space.shuttle I found a post (http://groups.google.com/groups?
> > hl=en&lr=&safe=off&ic=1&th=982d6b07a0bf50f9&seekm=38A7057C.3E83B7FF%
> > 40ibm-pc.org#p) that stated that some of the onboard systems ran
> > windows, don't know if it's true or not.
>
> btw - I am talking about "flight" systems and "control" systems. They
> may still use windows for some experiments or on their laptops. The
> flight control system for the shuttle is a really complex and
> interesting bit of military grade software. Interesting stuff. When you
> have to prove that your code _is_ correct (otherwise people die) there
> are some interesting issues. Also they have some info on how they use
> software in deep space missions where both hardware and software _have_
> to work for up to 20+ years without failure. It puts my PC uptime to
> shame.
Very true! Milspecs come into play with hardware. If I could get a
milspeced PC I'd have something of worth. :-)
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:44:42 -0700
Brent R wrote:
>
> Pete Goodwin wrote:
> >
> > Donn Miller wrote:
> >
> > > OK, I WILL agree with you on that point. This machine is a P166, 64
> > > megs RAM, and the last time I tried xine w/XFree86 with a 42 meg music
> > > MPEG video, it was dropping frames like crazy. It looked like a slide
> > > show. But Media Player under Win ME suffered very little frame
> > > lossage. Amazing. Of course, remember that MS tuned Windows ME
> > > specifically for this sort of thing. ME is not very good in general,
> > > because most things seem too damned slow on ME. But when it comes to
> > > playing videos (both RealPlayer, Windows Media, and MPEG music video),
> > > Windows ME has been outstanding. I find ME unusable for much else.
> > > Well, you know that MediaPlayer is probably using some sort of direct
> > > access to the video HW for optimum performance, so Windows does outshine
> > > Linux in this respect.
> >
> > For some reason my Linux system graphics is slower than Windows graphics in
> > general. I can only assume this is something to do with my Voodoo 5500 and
> > XFree86. Since 3dfx has been swallowed by NVidia, I'll have to upgrade
> > eventually.
>
> Everyone I've ever talked to has experienced this. Remember that X runs
> as a process on top of Linux (X isn't Linux after all), while the GUI is
> compiled in with Windows. Some may say that this was a poor choice but
> Windows does seem to redraw faster.
>
That is because everything in windows runs in ring 0. In linux you have
several ring levels that keep apps away from the kernel and daemons away
from the kernel. This is done for stability. Win9x series may run a
little faster, but it occasionaly croaks on the user.
> It's been suggested to me that Windows just seems like it's running
> faster because it allows you to move your mouse when the system has
> temporarily or permanently frozen, while Linux has a much more truthful
> representation of where the mouse is on your screen.
>
> > > Unfortunately, there's much more to computing than multimedia, so I only
> > > reboot into Windows to play music mpeg vid's. Of course, you know that
> > > music videos are much more demanding on CPU time than MPEG movies,
> > > right, because now you've got a continuous stream of sound as well as
> > > the video portion itself to deal with.
> >
> > I've yet to see both audio and video work on Linux. I can get one or the
> > other but not both. Which application where you using?
> >
> > --
> > Pete
>
> I'm actually very pleased with how audio works on Linux, actually I
> generally boot into it when I want to listen to music. I can listen to
> music and play a game (like Solitaire or whatever, just while I relax to
> the music) and not have to worry about the song skipping. I usually
> start up mpg123 from a non-GUI terminal and it plays solid as a rock...
> where as under Windows I take a chance when I play music, as it may
> crash the whole system.
>
> Nowadays that's the only reason I boot into Linux though, it's my
> Stereo- OS.
>
> --
> - Brent
>
> http://rotten168.home.att.net
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 - It is an excellent product
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 30 Apr 2001 01:17:51 -0500
On Sun, 29 Apr 2001 17:22:37 +0200, JoFi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Chad Everett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On 26 Apr 2001 23:55:11 -0500, Jan Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
><snip>
>>
>> DirectCD gave you this ability. Windows 2K does not have this capability
>> out of the box....you MUST buy additional software and install it as
>> administrator. Bet you can't tell us what the DirectCD installer did
>> to make your Windows 2K OS insecure?
>>
>>
>
>Can you? Or are you just here to spout more lies and FUD?
>
A simple "no" would have been fine.
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:51:42 -0700
Brent R wrote:
>
> MH wrote:
> <snip>
> > I'll hang around. I still like and use it.
>
> I pretty much have the same attitude. I'm not really opinionated in
> either way, it's just an OS. It's pretty fun to tinker with and it is a
> way to learn the UNIX way.
>
> I primarily use Windows. Why? I love the combination of IE and NS mail
> in Windows. There are good mail/news programs in Linux, I agree, but
> they are predominantly text-based and that just isn't my thing. Also, in
> Windows I haven't really run into the dependency problems I had under
> Linux. I haven't tried Konqueror yet despite the good reviews, I gave up
> on trying new Linux apps after the PAN frustration I ran into about a
> year ago (it needed to upgrade library after library... I gave up
> eventually).
>
You should own an HP Pavillion then with Windows. Download ICQ and see
what happens there. Dependency issue. For some reason ICQ appended
their own dll to MFC42.DLL. When you download ICQ it replaces the HPs
MFC42.DLL. HPs dll is much larger to support the hardware Wizard.
Causes problems. Once in a blue moon things like this happens.
I like using the caldera gui version of rpm. Click on the "check
dependency" button and install. IF the install fails it will tell you
what you need. The majority of the time I just went back to Calderas
web site and checked the help files. As usual there was a fix and a
download.
> Still, Linux is pretty fun to mess with, and I love using it as a music
> player... the music doesn't skip at all if you run the music player in
> non-GUI (I use mpg123). And there's the fact that UNIX's are becoming
> the standard for web server's, so if you want a future in
> administration, it might be wise to at least learn it.
>
> --
> - Brent
>
> http://rotten168.home.att.net
--
V
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:57:10 -0700
Gary Hallock wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > Better get used to Win2k Gary because by year end, it will be the
> > standard pre-load within a certain company replacing the Win95 that is
> > currently pre-loaded.
> >
>
> You're behind the times. I never use W2K. Yes, it came installed on my
> Thinkpad. Yes, all the new Thinkpads coming in have W2K installed. But
> we are rapidly moving to dual boot with Linux. No one wants to use W2K.
> It servers no useful purpose. The only thing that anyone ever uses W2K
> for in that "certain company" is running Lotus SmartSuite. And there
> are alternatives to that. In a company where Unix is already dominant
> on the desktop and servers, it only makes sense to go with a Unix-like OS
> on laptops.
>
> Gary
Ya know, I wonder if flatfish thinks that his ISP provider (att.net) is
run by MS stuff?
AT&T is UNIX. He should be glad he can get on with reliability. He
should try an ISP that uses Win2k. Maybe that would change things?
------------------------------
From: GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is paralyzed before it even starts
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:58:38 -0700
Michael Vester wrote:
>
> GreyCloud wrote:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Trolling Trolling Trolling, keep them doggies rolling, rawhide!
>
> I enjoy the "trolling" by the cute and lovable Flatfish. Our resident PC
> disk jockey. She does have a point about Linux not supporting obscure
> audio components. Personally, I prefer a quiet computer. My main Suse box
> is without a sound card now. I needed the slot. Still get my beeps in vi
> through the internal speaker. A speaker with a user installed
> potentiometer.
> --
> Michael Vester
> A credible Linux advocate
>
> "The avalanche has started, it is
> too late for the pebbles to vote"
> Kosh, Vorlon Ambassador to Babylon 5
I disable the sound on my machine. Too noisy. Don't play games so why
use one.
--
V
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chad Everett)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 - It is a crappy product
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 30 Apr 2001 01:30:23 -0500
On 29 Apr 2001 10:38:14 -0500, Jan Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Donn Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Chad Myers wrote:
>>
>> > Hmm, a default Windows install is pretty functional for me.
>> >
>> > What specifically are you talking about?
>>
>> Lack of a decent command-line interface and a standard API like unix
>> has.
>
>A decent command line interface? Um... what is it you can't do from the
>command line (that you couldn't do easier/faster from the GUI)???
>
Too many things to count...here's one: replace the user name embedded
in every MS-Word *.doc file on all your filesystems with your own name.
here's another: rename every file with a filename extension of .123 on
all your filesystems to the same filename but a different extension,
.txt for example.
This could go on forever.....
------------------------------
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