Linux-Advocacy Digest #710, Volume #26 Fri, 26 May 00 23:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: "Lean and mean" Mozilla (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Christopher Smith")
Re: Fun with Brain Dead Printers. (JEDIDIAH)
OSWars 2000 at www.stardock.com ("Brad")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Jim Larson)
Re: Fun with Brain Dead Printers. ("Andrew P. Billyard")
Re: OSWars 2000 at www.stardock.com ("David D. Huff Jr.")
Re: OSWars 2000 at www.stardock.com ("Brad")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: "Lean and mean" Mozilla
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 01:42:20 GMT
On Sat, 27 May 2000 00:46:46 GMT, Christopher Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Gary Hallock wrote:
>>Christopher Wong wrote:
>>> button. I know the usual explanations: not yet optimized, built with
>>> debug info, ... etc. But somehow, people believe that Mozilla will have
>>> a small footprint and good performance. In the absence of any concrete
>>> proof whatsoever, I would like to hear reasons why such belief
>>> exists. There must be some facts that I am missing so far. I am eager to
>>> hear them. (no, "blind faith" does not qualify).
>>
>>I believe that Mozilla is currently built with all libraries statically
>>linked. This was done for the beta to avoid dependency problems. The
>>final release copy is supposed to be built with shared libraries making it
>>much smaller. I'm not sure, but it is also likely that the beta was built
>>without optimization and with debug enabled.
>
>Thanks for responding, but I see that you did not answer my
>question. Why do people ASSUME it will be lean and mean? Anyone else?
For one, packagers have the option of RIPPING out anything
that is not directly related to browsing html pages. Having
dynamic library linking should help 'trim' things up too...
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:54:43 +1000
"Peter Ammon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 26 May 2000 11:19:21 -0700, Peter Ammon
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Chris Wenham wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Seán Ó Donnchadha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >>
> > >> > But end-user Unix applications are on average
> > >> > bloatier, buggier, uglier, much less usable, and overall shittier
than
> > >> > their Windows counterparts.
> > >>
> > >> Can you give examples of this?
> > >
> > >The free ICQ client that I used with LinuxPPC was more unstable, harder
> > >to install, and harder to uninstall than both of the Mac ICQ clients
> > >I've used, and I presume the Windows ones too.
> >
> > www.helixcode.com - try the desktop, and oh, get LinuxICQ too....
>
> Thanks, I'll give it a whirl.
>
> Perhaps this isn't the appropriate group (though it certaintly is
> crossposted enough that I might get lucky!) but can someone explain what
> Gnome is? My understanding is that it's a GUI that operates under the
> X-Window system and allows for different window managers (i.e. "skins")
> such as Enlightenment. If this is the case, then what's the difference
> between Helix GNOME and the GNOME that came with my LinuxPPC distribution?
GNOME is basically like Finder (or Explorer) without the file manager bits.
A Clayton's GUI, you might say :).
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Fun with Brain Dead Printers.
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 01:48:57 GMT
On Sat, 27 May 2000 00:42:30 GMT, Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Typical lost cause jedi reply. No wonder even the
>Linux camp wants you to quit advocating for them.
>
>1.Have not seen a printer that is not supported
>under Windows and that includes 1985 variety dot
I never claimed that there were printers that AREN'T.
You are building a false strawman here.
>matrix Epsons.
>Same for Linux? I think not. Maybe the 1985 model
>but nothing modern other than PS printers.
Plenty of modern PCL printers are also supported. I don't
really follow the others. A simply character pipe like a
printer shouldn't be that prone to overcomplication.
However, that still doesn't address the fact that many end
users are easily confounded, and can be thrown even by
dealing with a driver disk in Windows.
You foolishly presume that none of us have 'novice end users'
of our own to occcasionally contend with.
>
>2.Select a check box and the nozzle is cleaned.
>
>3. select a check box and diagnostics are run.
>
>4, Print a document and the box that comes up
>prompts you for pages size, portrait/landscape,
Actually, that's application dependent. It's also
PRINTER dependent. This can be annoying sometimes.
The control applet for the HP 8100N is slightly
byzantine.
>resolution and paper tray. Nothing to remember.
If you've got to deal with different printer models, there
certainly is. Whereas simple printer configuration options
are also available to anything that spews PS.
>
>What que was the high resolution que I set up
>under Linux? Oh gee, I forget...
Something like "high resolution" would likely give you a clue.
Although, you would be in control of naming it so I could see
how you could get confused.
>
>Give me a break..No comparison...
>Stop trying to diffuse the obvious...
>
>On Sat, 27 May 2000 00:29:38 GMT,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 23:50:07 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>>I prefer to have the latest driver. Most hardware is supported out of
>>
>> What's so 'complicated' about driving a printer that you would have
>>to worry about having the most 'bleeding edge' one. Besides, if your
>>OS vendor were less stingy about distribution, you wouldn't have to
>>worry about your drivers being 'old'.
>>
>>>the box under Windows anyway. I like to be able to switch paper trays,
>>
>> Most isn't QUITE good enough. All it takes is one driver disk to
>>confound some novice end users.
>>
>>>switch resolutions, clean the nozzle, switch landscape and portrait
>>>easily without having to set up 15 different printer ques to do it.
>>
>> OTOH, having to constantly futz with the printer configuration
>>is annoying rather than having several easy pre-canned configurations
>>that one could use.
>>
>> Nevermind, why would you bother 'manually' cleaning the nozzle anyways.
>> That's just sooo 70's...
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 20:46:14 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 20:02:15 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>>>>This is exactly what makes Linux so hysterical. You have to
>>>>>"experiment" with a piece of hardwre to make it work.
>>>>>
>>>>>Shit under Windows youplug it in, Windows prompts for a CD, prints a
>>>>>test page and that's it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tell me again how Linux is easier to use?
>>>>
>>>> Easier would be not needing the 'extra' CD to begin with.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 26 May 2000 09:05:42 -0600, Chris Webster
>>>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there any way to make a Poscript "hello world" file to experiment with?
>>>>>>> I'm sure a Postscript guru could hand-make a "Hello World" file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>%!PS-Adobe-1.0
>>>>>>% Print Hello world in lower left corner, portrait
>>>>>>/Times-Roman findfont 20 scalefont setfont
>>>>>>10 10 moveto
>>>>>>(Hello, world) show
>>>>>>showpage
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--Chris
>>>>>
>>>
>
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: "Brad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.be.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: OSWars 2000 at www.stardock.com
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 02:19:58 GMT
After months of playing around with the various operating systems I've
managed to complete OSWars 2000, the follow-up to OSWars '98.
The article is at:
http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/oswars2000.html
The Topics included are:
Macintosh:
I didn't think it was fair to cover MacOS X (server) or the currently
available desktop version of MacOS with Aqua coming out relatively soon. So
I'll do a follow-on when MacOS X with Aqua is available as I think Mac users
will like how that turns out. I think that MacOS X with Aqua has a good
chance of luring many PC power users over to the Macintosh. I know as a
software developer, the events on the Macintosh recently have been pretty
exciting.
Linux:
I gave Linux the most space this time around because it's the hardest one to
cover fairly. Linux has so many really incredible strengths but has many
weaknesses that are, unfortunately, not clear cut. To some people, an OS
that requires reasonably compotent computer users to operate is a good thing
wheras to others it's a bad thing.
Windows 2000:
Windows 2000 got covered as it's the latest version of NT and it's actually
turned out pretty well for the most part. It's the OS I am running as I
type this. If Microsoft wasn't such a bastard I think they'd hear more
people patting them on the back for their efforts.
Windows 98:
Well, this has to get covered as it's the most widely used desktop OS in the
world sadly enough. The Big Mac is probably the world's best selling
hamburger but probably not the world's best burger <grin>. Win98 is the big
mac of OSes. It gets the job done for most people but not much else.
OS/2 Warp:
Some people might question including OS/2 in this at this point but my
background is in OS/2 and I'm pretty fond of the operating system (I still
run it on a few machines around here). Its main problem is that its parent
wants it to go away and has made it increasingly clear that they want it to
go away. But many of the users of OS/2 simply won't let it because it
actually is a pretty terrific operating system even by today's standards.
BeOS:
Be was smart to release the personal edition. I don't cover BeOS a great
deal though but I think it's a fine OS.
The full article is pretty lengthy. You can email me any questions or
comments to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or to my personal address
[EMAIL PROTECTED] BTW, my opinions reflect my own and not of my
employer, this is purely for the enjoyment of my fellow OS fanatics. ;)
Again:
http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/oswars2000.html
Brad
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:20:59 -0500
On Fri, 26 May 2000 18:35:36 -0700, Peter Ammon
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >The free ICQ client that I used with LinuxPPC was more unstable, harder
>> >to install, and harder to uninstall than both of the Mac ICQ clients
>> >I've used, and I presume the Windows ones too.
>>
>> www.helixcode.com - try the desktop, and oh, get LinuxICQ too....
>
>Thanks, I'll give it a whirl.
>
>Perhaps this isn't the appropriate group (though it certaintly is
>crossposted enough that I might get lucky!)
Pfft. Don't worry about it at all.
>but can someone explain what
>Gnome is? My understanding is that it's a GUI that operates under the
>X-Window system and allows for different window managers (i.e. "skins")
>such as Enlightenment. If this is the case, then what's the difference
>between Helix GNOME and the GNOME that came with my LinuxPPC distribution?
None. But Helix has dressed it up a lot, made it prettier, and just
put some serious work into it to make it look "better". Try it -
you'll like it. And when new updates come out, just run the updater
in your System menu, and poof - you'll have the latest version in
minutes (or hours, depending on line speed). _And_ it makes a great,
easy, and reliable way to upgrade libraries and such to make sure
you've got the latest (wrt Gnome stuff, at least). I just grabbed
HelixCode Gnome 1.2, and while I haven't noticed any differences, it's
still a very nice desktop environment...for Linux. :)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:21:42 -0500
On Sat, 27 May 2000 03:43:13 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew J.
Brehm) wrote:
>Peter Ammon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps this isn't the appropriate group (though it certaintly is
>> crossposted enough that I might get lucky!) but can someone explain what
>> Gnome is? My understanding is that it's a GUI that operates under the
>> X-Window system and allows for different window managers (i.e. "skins")
>> such as Enlightenment. If this is the case, then what's the difference
>> between Helix GNOME and the GNOME that came with my LinuxPPC distribution?
>
>Gnome is a desktop, Enlightenment is a window manager which can use
>different themes (or skins, if you like).
>
>I believe LinuxPPC comes with Helix (I used to use it, but I prefer
>Yellow Dog now).
>
>I believe KDE is based on a non-free version of QT and thus Gnome should
>be prefered by "politically correct" GNU users. Well, at least I
>remember RMS saying that.
That was true long ago, but I thought that had been rectified.
>I use Gnome.
Way cool; I can't stand KDE now. :)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Larson)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 02:27:43 GMT
On Sun, 22 May 3900 16:59:56, "David D. Huff Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Instead of taking a beating across the board. Might M$ stand a better
> chance of survival if it breaks up voluntarily then some part of the
> business could survive. The last couple of days they've been taking
> quite a beating in the stock market. Along with a lot of peoples'
> retirement money. Shouldn't the stockholders demand that they bite the
> bullet now and salvage what they can?
> They should split on their own terms, not what the government dictates.
> Thus ensuring themselves their best chance for survival. Three parts may
> be better than two, diversifying their cumulative losses.
>
Whatever jugdement is rendered against Microsoft by Jackson will be
overturned by an immediate appeal to the Supreme Court. Nevertheless,
the damage to Microsoft has been done.
As a side point, watch for a suprising and very swift upturn in the
markets sometime in August if not before.
Jim Larson
------------------------------
From: "Andrew P. Billyard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Fun with Brain Dead Printers.
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 02:33:19 GMT
If Linux is such a joke, why do you even bother with it? If you don't, why are
you writing on this newsgroup?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> This is exactly what makes Linux so hysterical. You have to
> "experiment" with a piece of hardwre to make it work.
>
> Shit under Windows youplug it in, Windows prompts for a CD, prints a
> test page and that's it.
>
> Tell me again how Linux is easier to use?
>
> On Fri, 26 May 2000 09:05:42 -0600, Chris Webster
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Is there any way to make a Poscript "hello world" file to experiment with?
> >> I'm sure a Postscript guru could hand-make a "Hello World" file.
> >
> >
> >%!PS-Adobe-1.0
> >% Print Hello world in lower left corner, portrait
> >/Times-Roman findfont 20 scalefont setfont
> >10 10 moveto
> >(Hello, world) show
> >showpage
> >
> >
> >--Chris
------------------------------
From: "David D. Huff Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.be.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: OSWars 2000 at www.stardock.com
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 02:43:24 GMT
Brad if you and Esther wrote a book I would buy it just so I could burn it.
Brad wrote:
> After months of playing around with the various operating systems I've
> managed to complete OSWars 2000, the follow-up to OSWars '98.
>
> The article is at:
> http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/oswars2000.html
>
> The Topics included are:
>
> Macintosh:
> I didn't think it was fair to cover MacOS X (server) or the currently
> available desktop version of MacOS with Aqua coming out relatively soon. So
> I'll do a follow-on when MacOS X with Aqua is available as I think Mac users
> will like how that turns out. I think that MacOS X with Aqua has a good
> chance of luring many PC power users over to the Macintosh. I know as a
> software developer, the events on the Macintosh recently have been pretty
> exciting.
>
> Linux:
> I gave Linux the most space this time around because it's the hardest one to
> cover fairly. Linux has so many really incredible strengths but has many
> weaknesses that are, unfortunately, not clear cut. To some people, an OS
> that requires reasonably compotent computer users to operate is a good thing
> wheras to others it's a bad thing.
>
> Windows 2000:
> Windows 2000 got covered as it's the latest version of NT and it's actually
> turned out pretty well for the most part. It's the OS I am running as I
> type this. If Microsoft wasn't such a bastard I think they'd hear more
> people patting them on the back for their efforts.
>
> Windows 98:
> Well, this has to get covered as it's the most widely used desktop OS in the
> world sadly enough. The Big Mac is probably the world's best selling
> hamburger but probably not the world's best burger <grin>. Win98 is the big
> mac of OSes. It gets the job done for most people but not much else.
>
> OS/2 Warp:
> Some people might question including OS/2 in this at this point but my
> background is in OS/2 and I'm pretty fond of the operating system (I still
> run it on a few machines around here). Its main problem is that its parent
> wants it to go away and has made it increasingly clear that they want it to
> go away. But many of the users of OS/2 simply won't let it because it
> actually is a pretty terrific operating system even by today's standards.
>
> BeOS:
> Be was smart to release the personal edition. I don't cover BeOS a great
> deal though but I think it's a fine OS.
>
> The full article is pretty lengthy. You can email me any questions or
> comments to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or to my personal address
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTW, my opinions reflect my own and not of my
> employer, this is purely for the enjoyment of my fellow OS fanatics. ;)
>
> Again:
> http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/oswars2000.html
>
> Brad
------------------------------
From: "Brad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.be.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: OSWars 2000 at www.stardock.com
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 02:51:53 GMT
"David D. Huff Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Brad wrote:
>
> > After months of playing around with the various operating systems I've
> > managed to complete OSWars 2000, the follow-up to OSWars '98.
> >
> > The article is at:
> > http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/oswars2000.html
> >
> > The Topics included are:
> >
> > Macintosh:
> > I didn't think it was fair to cover MacOS X (server) or the currently
> > available desktop version of MacOS with Aqua coming out relatively soon.
So
> > I'll do a follow-on when MacOS X with Aqua is available as I think Mac
users
> > will like how that turns out. I think that MacOS X with Aqua has a good
> > chance of luring many PC power users over to the Macintosh. I know as a
> > software developer, the events on the Macintosh recently have been
pretty
> > exciting.
> >
> > Linux:
> > I gave Linux the most space this time around because it's the hardest
one to
> > cover fairly. Linux has so many really incredible strengths but has
many
> > weaknesses that are, unfortunately, not clear cut. To some people, an
OS
> > that requires reasonably compotent computer users to operate is a good
thing
> > wheras to others it's a bad thing.
> >
> > Windows 2000:
> > Windows 2000 got covered as it's the latest version of NT and it's
actually
> > turned out pretty well for the most part. It's the OS I am running as I
> > type this. If Microsoft wasn't such a bastard I think they'd hear more
> > people patting them on the back for their efforts.
> >
> > Windows 98:
> > Well, this has to get covered as it's the most widely used desktop OS in
the
> > world sadly enough. The Big Mac is probably the world's best selling
> > hamburger but probably not the world's best burger <grin>. Win98 is the
big
> > mac of OSes. It gets the job done for most people but not much else.
> >
> > OS/2 Warp:
> > Some people might question including OS/2 in this at this point but my
> > background is in OS/2 and I'm pretty fond of the operating system (I
still
> > run it on a few machines around here). Its main problem is that its
parent
> > wants it to go away and has made it increasingly clear that they want it
to
> > go away. But many of the users of OS/2 simply won't let it because it
> > actually is a pretty terrific operating system even by today's
standards.
> >
> > BeOS:
> > Be was smart to release the personal edition. I don't cover BeOS a
great
> > deal though but I think it's a fine OS.
> >
> > The full article is pretty lengthy. You can email me any questions or
> > comments to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or to my personal address
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] BTW, my opinions reflect my own and not of my
> > employer, this is purely for the enjoyment of my fellow OS fanatics. ;)
> >
> > Again:
> > http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/oswars2000.html
> >
> > Brad
>
> Brad if you and Esther wrote a book I would buy it just so I could burn
it.
Esther has written some books actually. If I wrote a book, it would
probably be a coffee table style book so burning it might give off a weird
plasticy scent to it.
But tell you what, if you want to send me $24.95 we can pretend you bought a
book and burned it. It'll save time and cut out the middle men. ;)
Brad
>
------------------------------
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