Linux-Advocacy Digest #854, Volume #26 Sat, 3 Jun 00 12:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: KDE is better than Gnome (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Michael J. Stango)
Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Linux/Gaining Acceptance (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Christopher Browne)
Re: HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages) (Christopher Browne)
Re: The Linux Fortress (Gary Hallock)
Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies ("1$Worth")
Re: How Pete Goodwin Can Fix "The sad Linux story" ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: New User here, and I think Linux Stinks! (JEDIDIAH)
URGENT! Linux vs MS-Exchange as email server (RHL User)
Re: How Pete Goodwin Can Fix "The sad Linux story" ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: New User here, and I think Linux Stinks! (JEDIDIAH)
Re: New User here, and I think Linux Stinks! (JEDIDIAH)
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (T. Max Devlin)
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.kde,tw.bbs.comp.linux
Subject: Re: KDE is better than Gnome
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:22:29 GMT
On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 14:54:48 +0200, Achim Hillenbrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>In article <Ww3S4.869$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "none2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> one thing i hate about KDE is that
>> (a) it looks likes windows
>> (b) gnome doesnt
>>
>> even KDE2, is going down the path of intregated www browser in file
>> manager tool,too all those KDE users who want Windows type interface, how
>> about.. run windows?
>
>Hmm, I always thought that there are more reasons to run Linux than just
>that ´it doesn´t look like Windows´. What about stability, an open
>development
If you don't like the way the Windows desktop is organized then
"not looking like Windows" can be a very compelling motivation...
[deletia]
Not everyone likes the "one true interface".
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael J. Stango)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:23:38 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, JFW
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Wanna theorize what it'd pay or do to keep it's entire office
> infrastructure from becoming a foreign import?
Annex Canada and make it the 51st state? <g>
~Philly
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
Michael J. Stango --who is known as 'mjstango' at his ISP, 'home.com'
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
But, in practice, there is. " -- Jan van de Snepscheut
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:23:28 GMT
On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:07:49 GMT, Jorge Cueto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The whole point of Java's p-code portability is that there is no need
>> for architecture specific re-compilation. This is far from stupid. It is
>> as simple as having a single deployable application that makes customers
>> lives easier. The compilation comes in the form of just in time native
>> optimizations. Having the ability to move running processes from one
>> environment to another (live) is a very useful thing for constructing
>> dynamic network applications.
>
> I think there are better ways to achieve that without p-code
Like what?
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux/Gaining Acceptance
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:24:25 GMT
Gary Hallock wrote:
>
> Joe Warner wrote:
>
> > Hi, I've noticed a lot of postings from people in this newsgroup who
> > appear to be pro-Microsoft, so I hope I don't get flamed too bad for
> > this.
> > I've been trying to teach myself Linux/Unix for the last couple of
> > years where I work and have been trying to find ways to gain acceptance
> > and justify ways to use it in our shop but it's been an uphill battle
> > all the way. You see, most of the people I work with (managers and
> > grunts like me), see through Microsoft or IBM sunglasses and don't even
> > want to hear about Linux/Unix or any other alternatives. I've got on my
> > soap box many times, explaining how Linux/Unix could be a cost effective
> > and stable alternative as a web server, router, firewall..etc but my
> > words always seem to fall on deaf ears. Obviously, I must be going
> > about things the wrong way or I need to look for a job in a shop where
> > Linux/Unix is being used more? If I could find ways to convince "the
> > powers that be" to give me some decent equipment and set up a web server
> > or firewall with Linux, I'd be able to accomplish 2 important goals.
> > 1. To gain acceptance for Linux/Unix in a primarily Microsoft/IBM
> > shop. 2. I'd have justification to do what I've wanted to do for a
> > long time: learn more and become proficient at using Linux/Unix.
> > Any recommendations or comments would be appreciated, even the
> > flames as long as you don't scorch me too bad. 8^}
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Joe
>
> Since IBM is now into Linux big time, you could play your management's game
> and point to all the Linux support from IBM. They can remain an IBM shop
> and yet move towards Linux. Another approach is to simply do it - don't
> wait for management approval. For example, it you have a desktop or
> laptop at work, install Linux along side Windows. This has actually been a
> common approach. Linux at IBM started out as an somewhat underground
> project, including Linux for S/390. Management eventually saw the
> advantages of Linux and embraced it. Of course, it depends on your
> situation, whether you feel comfortable with taking the underground
> approach.
>
> Gary
Here's another way to look at this.
When Microsoft is either triced or moved to Canada, the only OS left
to use will be Linux with the X desktop.
No other development of an OS will be feasable after Microsoft dies as
Linux simply has such a large code base, it would take decades to start
one again.
The answer is to just wait about 5 years and it will happen
automatically.
It's much easier to do this than get into a battle with a bunch of
people with law degree's over which OS to use.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:24:00 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when John Wiltshire would say:
>>Assuming the assinine that MS does move to Canada and takes all its
>>employees, the people who would suffer the most are the employees. MS
>>employees would find no buyers for their US homes or would have to sell
>>them in a very depressed local real estate market
>
>Agreed. However, if the Canadian govt paid the employees enough then
>I'm sure they'd do it. If MS has the 500,000 employees you claim it
>does then they can pretty much buy their houses out of petty cash.
>Remember MS makes about 5 million dollars a day on bank interest
>alone.
The _truly crippling_ cost would be Bill Gates' own tax bill on the day
he emigrated.
Deemed disposition of assets at fair market value.
The IRS would decidedly go after _that_ tax bill...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/linux.html>
"Optimization hinders evolution." -- Alan Perlis
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: HTML Help files (an updated set of man pages)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:24:01 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Paul Voller would say:
>Matthias Warkus, on Sat, 3 Jun 2000, wrote an email like this:
>
><taken my bit out>
>|
>|Looks like you're planning to reinvent systems such as
>|- KDE help
>|- GNOME help
>|- susehilf
>|- dwww (Debian help)
>|etc. etc.
>|
>|which all work by integrating the various documentation resources on a
>|Linux machine in a "seamless" HTML help system.
>
>No, not really. I have no experience with K help system, Debian or Suse's
>help systems, and Gnomes is all about how to use Gnome. For instance, I
>cannot just go to the help system and query it as to what "biff" does - I
>have to use the command line man function.
>
>What I wanted to achive was an HTML based equivalent of the man
>pages. i.e. totally comprehensive, but with examples and easier
>formatting. This will also allow for people to link man pages where
>relevant and make the whole help experience easier.
>
>It is by no means a trivial task, but I was attempting to gauge the
>reception of such a system.
What is probably _really_ required is to transform the man pages
and texinfo and HTML into a common Lingua Franca, DocBook, and then
integrate _THAT_ as the comprehensive common documentation source.
There has been handwaving about the idea now and again; it really
hasn't gone anywhere yet.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/linux.html>
"Optimization hinders evolution." -- Alan Perlis
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 11:24:50 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Linux Fortress
Christopher Browne wrote:
> I think you need some better criterion for this, because the Gnome
> libraries _are_ installed.
It works fine for me, but I am using Redhat. Perhaps Redhat changed linuxconf.
Gary
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:25:13 GMT
On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 07:59:46 GMT, Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in <8h492p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>Any one thinking of developing user applications must be crazy not
>>to consider Java. Good language, portable, well documented. Linux,
>>is solid platform, good platform for development.
>
>I've always been wary of languages that claim to be portable. When you try
>using them on different platforms, you find youself coding to a minimal
>standard, and then things go downhill fast from then on.
Any cross platform enviroment is going to be like that. It doesn't
matter whether or not it's a language or an API. A 'standard'
certainly implies the necessity to at least minimally conform to a
common specification. This is what separates the MS notion of a
standard and everyone else's.
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: "1$Worth" <"1$Worth"@costreduction.removeplse.screaming.net>
Subject: Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 16:25:48 +0100
Pete Goodwin wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in <8h492p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >Any one thinking of developing user applications must be crazy not
> >to consider Java. Good language, portable, well documented. Linux,
> >is solid platform, good platform for development.
>
> I've always been wary of languages that claim to be portable. When you try
> using them on different platforms, you find youself coding to a minimal
> standard, and then things go downhill fast from then on.
And you are correct to be wary. If you've tried Java you'll find it a
refreshing change, and your programs may use rich set of standard
libraries while remaining totally portable. Try....
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How Pete Goodwin Can Fix "The sad Linux story"
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:27:37 GMT
On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 07:50:20 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin) wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (sandrews) wrote in <39386CA5.DBD2C3C6
>@computelnet.com>:
>
>>Like I told you before, and I`ll say it again what you say
>>pegs my Bullshit Meter.
>
>And as I said before your Bullshit meter is so broken.
Of course it is, running under Linux most likely.
>>I looks like all you want is for someone to do everything for you.
>>Yep, just sit on your ass, do nothing and wait and make excuses.
>
>Why not, since everyone is claiming is _the_ system I should use.
That's the funniest part of this whole Linux movement, and it is a
movement, they keep changing the rules as you go along depending on
the discussion.
Example:
Answer #1:Linux is as easy to use as Windows when using a gui.
Answer #2: Do you want someone (Linux) to do everything for you?
You will get either or of the above answers depending upon which point
of Linux you make a suggestion about.
>>The Open Source Developers owe nothing to anyone. They do as they
>>please.
>
>And up the rest of us, huh? Do they want to repeat the mistakes of the
>past, is that it? Do they every listen to anyone else other than
>themselves?
They march to a completely different drummer than the typical office
running Windows.
>>They didn`t ask you to use their code etc. Open Source says here is
>>our code, here is our system, use it if you like. You ought to thank
>>them
>>for what they have done.
>
>Oh yes they did, when they claimed Linux is the best.
"Best" if you are a programmer, willing to dedicate your life to
figuring out how they want you to perform simple tasks.
>>And yes, before you bitch at me, I am a Public Domain software developer
>>as
>>well as a Beta tester. Bite Me.
>
>So what? So am I! Bite yourself.
Ouch!!
>Pete
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: New User here, and I think Linux Stinks!
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:29:31 GMT
On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 20:33:26 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I tried Linux last week and I find it is poor substitute for Windows. First
>problem is it looks like crap. I have Matrox G-400 card with 32 meg and still
>fonts look boxy and fuzzy.
This is an unsupportable assertion.
>
>Second problem is scanner no work.I try sane. I go IN-Sane reading
>documentation.
There's really not much to it. You find the relevant homepage
and read through the supported devices list.
If you are trying to claim that sane is particularlly hard to
install: you are simply full of it.
>
>I never read Windows documentation, why I need Linux doc?
>
>I have sound blaster live card, popular card I think? no?
>
>I no can find any features like environmental audio in driver. I can't use my
Something like that is handled by an API. Such an api exists for
Linux. What exactly were you thinking you were going to do with
that functionality without a game such as Heavy Gear II?
[deletia]
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: RHL User <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: URGENT! Linux vs MS-Exchange as email server
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:31:45 GMT
I have recently learned that my company has been looking at MS-Exchange
as our company email server. Since I am familiar with Linux I have been
asking questions about this, namely why pay for MS-Exchange when Linux
is free. The answer to that is that our IT contractor only knows
MS-Exchange or Groupwise.
Can anyone help me with some info / comparisons between Linux as a mail
server and MS-Exchange.
The timing is critical because I have to have a proposal ready for
Monday, our board of directors meet on Tuesday.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Chris Trummer
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: How Pete Goodwin Can Fix "The sad Linux story"
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:31:55 GMT
***Sarcasm ON*****
"So fix it yourself if you don't like it. You have the source code"
***Sarcasm OFF****
The school my kids attend has them designing their own web pages using
Front Page as early as the third grade.
Some of them are pretty good too.
I'd love to see the looks on their faces when some Linux nut tells
them to use a text editor to write the HTML.
On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 02:44:25 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>In article <8h6tau$5fp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk) wrote:
>
>> So, improve these help documents yourself! This does not
>> require a rocket scientist, nor even a programmer. The simple
>> HTML you're talking about can be written with a plain text
>> editor (preferably using a couple of macros to insert the
>> tag skeletons), or I'm sure there are plenty of HTML editors
>> you can use. One of the main things the man pages need is
>> lots more *examples*.
>
>Linux has got to be the only system where the _user_ consistently gets
>blame for the problems with the system. According to collective wisdom
>on comp.os.linux.advocacy, not only is it my fault that I don't see a
>strinking resemblance between the word "biff" and the concept of e-mail
>delivery notification, but it is also my fault that Linux crashes so
>much -- because I haven't root caused all of the bugs and submitted
>patches. If you are going to take that attitude, why bother entering
>advocacy at all? All other systems -- most of which are of demonstrably
>better quality than Linux -- have clearly defined vendors who are
>interested in fixing the bugs before the product ships.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: New User here, and I think Linux Stinks!
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:31:26 GMT
On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 01:14:04 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Sorry to burst your bubble Angus, but it ain't me. I run a Matrox
>G-200 and I don't expect Linux to be able to use any multimedia
>features to the level of Windows. I gave up on that one a long time
>ago.
I do. But then again I'm not a whiny twit that gives up at
the first sign of diversity (nevermind adversity).
>
>Looks like you have yet another satisfied customer.
No, this is just another 'its not windows' sort of drone.
They would have the same reaction to a fully configured
(by someone else) iMac.
>
>
>
>On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 01:00:50 GMT, Angus Cameron
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (aka Steve, keyman, etc.) wrote:
>>>
>>> I tried Linux last week and I find it is poor substitute for Windows. First
>>> problem is it looks like crap.
>>> I have Matrox G-400 card with 32 meg and still
>>> fonts look boxy and fuzzy.
>>
>>Hello Steve, still having that boxy font problem, eh? Why don't you
>>just stick with
>>your windows and leave us alone. I'd also suggest some therapy to help
>>you with your
>>multiple personality disfunction.
>>
>>>
>>> Second problem is scanner no work.I try sane. I go IN-Sane reading
>>> documentation.
>>>
>>> I never read Windows documentation, why I need Linux doc?
>>>
>>> I have sound blaster live card, popular card I think? no?
>>>
>>> I no can find any features like environmental audio in driver. I can't use my
>>> digital out to connect to my minidisc player like I can with windows.
>>>
>>> I try Wordperfect which came with Linux CD. This program looks like shit and is
>>> so slow it is pathetic.
>>>
>>> In fact Linux itself is slow. file manager with kde is very slow. Gnome is no
>>> better, that is when I can keep gnome from crashing.
>>>
>>> Sorry people, but Linux is a no show. It just scuks and there is no other way of
>>> explaining it.
>>>
>>> I show my friends Linux and they say it sucks too.
>>> We all can't be wrong. To those of you thinking of trying Linux, don't, it
>>> sucks real bad.
>>>
>>> Please excuse my english..
>>
>>No.
>>
>>> Ishmeal
>>
>>Whatever.
>
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: New User here, and I think Linux Stinks!
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:36:08 GMT
On 1 Jun 2000 22:50:26 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chris says...
>
>>For your font's find the HOWTO on X-font deuglification. Basically, you can
>>use your Windows TrueType fonts to replace the ugly ones you get by default.
>>
>>If you can't read documentation, then you are merely a computer user,
>
>This is a typical loser reposnse.
>
>You do not buy a new car, and be expected to read the engine manual to
Actually you should be expected to read the manual to be aware
of the basics. Otherwise, you're going to be raped by the first
mechanic you encounter much like the anti-intellecutal novice
computer user in a computer store.
At the very least, you need to be aware of the maintenance
schedule and various features on the vehicle (like, say on
the fly 4x4 or just setting the clock on your radio).
>figure how to fix something in it to make work as good as the
>other car that comes with the better engine.
>
>People will simply buy the car with the better engine as is. Unless you
>are mentally retarded, you will not buy a new car that you
>are expected to take home and still do more work on it to fix it.
>
>If windows true fonts are allready there to use on linux, then they
>should come ready to use out of the box. The user does not have to
>read a single document to use them. On widows they do not have to do
>that, why should they have to on linux?? isn't Linux supposed to be the
Depends on your point of view. Not all of us are that impressed
with the default fonts in various applications or the desktop
itself. The collection of fonts that Windows comes with is actually
quite anemic.
>better OS?
>
>>
>>Oh well, if you don't like Linux, no problem. Don't use it.
>>
>
>96% of PC users allready do NOT use it. It is all due to attitudes
>like yours who have no idea what a friendly desktop OS is all about.
Nope, it's due to Microsoft being the 800lb giant and being
thought of as the 'default option' since long before any
user interface that the likes of you could handle ever graced
an MS user's machine.
[deletia]
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 11:42:11 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting budgie from alt.destroy.microsoft; Sat, 03 Jun 2000 05:59:18 GMT
[...]
>They have full production studio facilities, thanks for asking. They
>do produce documentaries and training tapes.
So I guess that translates to "yes, you're right [again], Max; the state
police video support unit doesn't tape commercial television and movies,
and so does not value the longer playing time of VHS as much as the
general public."
>>Listen, Budgie. I've obviously annoyed you, as your comments are quite
>>emotional.
>
>Annoyed, yes, because of your supercilious attitude and your seeming
>need to dispute everything anyone states, and to have the last word.
>That's why.
Sorry. None of this is true, except all of it, of course. I know I
sound supercilious, everybody does on Usenet. You do. I am not
"disdainful or contemptuous", however, merely arrogant. I do like to
counter points which I think are in error; am I to blame if "everything
anyone states" is in error? But the last thing in the world that I want
is the 'last word'. I would prefer the discussion continue, so that you
may learn why you are in error, or I may do so.
>> Choosing "to bundle
>>or not to bundle" is not a choice, its an ultimatum. The OEM had either
>>an exclusive arrangement, or uncompetitive pricing; that's their choice,
>>and we already know what selection they made *and you accepted*.
>
>No, you're at it again. Their choice, as you put it, was Win95. Mine
>wasn't. It could have been hardware and no O/S, leaving me free to go
>with DR-DOS or other DOS-substitutes. The fact that I chose DOS/WFWG
>was a choice. Watch my lips - "I had a choice".
Keep saying it long enough and you may think it is true. Thank you for
confirming that I was entirely correct; you choice was "Windows or
nothing", even purchasing the system custom-built from a small OEM. Let
me ask you, did you have a choice of DOS 6 without Windows 3.1? The
fact that an Australian in 1996 could buy a PC with no operating system
is hardly support for your insistence that "most people on this side of
the planet" have a choice. Nor is the fact that their 'choice' was
limited to "choose to bundle or choose not to bundle". Americans to
this day can build their own PC, or buy a Linux box from a number of
small OEMs. Its that old "I thought 'monopoly' meant 'only one company
in the business'" jazz. Its simply incorrect; the situation need not
get nearly so bad before legal action is in order to stop predatory
activities which raise artificial barriers to entry.
>>Further, I'm not sure what experience in the video support unit is
>>supposed to contradict the fact that playing time is widely believed to
>>have been a decisive factor in the "VCR wars".
>
>I was commenting on non-domestic market asd opposed to domestic.
>Re-read if you missed that.
Well, its the domestic market that had "VCR wars". If professionals
still use Beta, that merely proves the point, in several ways:
a) Beta isn't even 'dead' as a technology
b) Professionals obviously have different selection criteria than home
consumers
c) Neither technology is selected because it is tied to a brand, and no
brand is selected because it is tied to a technology
All of this supports my contention that the VHS/Beta issue is not a
useful analogy in any way to the PC OS market.
>> Regardless, it wasn't a
>>monopoly manipulating the market, defrauding their customers, and
>>artificial barriers to entry that made VHS more popular for the home
>>market than Beta.
>
>No, it was what I said it was. AN example of how market share and
>subsequent market dominance is not the inevitable result of technical
>superiority. I suspect in your search for "points" to dispute you
>forget what has been stated or choose to lose the context.
No, I'm just trying to get you to read my response, and stop ignoring
it, as you are apparantly still doing. Not only *isn't* it a useful
example of "market share and market dominance" as relates to PC OSes
(VHS is a technology, not a product or a brand), but it *also* doesn't
support the idea that consumer choices are "not the inevitable result of
technical superiority". I've already explained what "technical
superiority" means to the home consumer: longer play time. All you did
was scoff. Who's being supercilious here?
>>-[Opinions expressed are my own;
>
>Thank heaven for that.
Yea, we wouldn't want questioning your correctness to be made into a law
or anything.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 11:42:13 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting budgie from alt.destroy.microsoft; Sat, 03 Jun 2000 06:03:07 GMT
[...]
>I didn't pay for Win-anything unless I chose a Win-something. I had
>three basic choices - Win95, WFWG/DOS (or just DOS) or No_O/S. Prices
>for each options were available. I don't know why you all seem to
>have trouble with that situation.
We have trouble understanding why you think it disputes our contention.
You have a choice of a) Windows 4 and DOS 6, b) Windows 3.11 and DOS 6,
c) No OS. What on earth makes you think this is evidence of a
competitive market? How can you be so brain-dead as to think this is a
CHOICE?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
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