Linux-Advocacy Digest #967, Volume #26 Thu, 8 Jun 00 00:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux? The Kings New Clothes!!! ("None")
Re: Linux is so stable... (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Linux in the Reject Bin at CompUSA (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Just Installed Win 2K and it ROCKS!!!!!!! (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Linux in the Reject Bin at CompUSA (Christopher Browne)
Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day (Gary Heston)
Re: Segmentation Fault? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Just Installed Win 2K and it ROCKS!!!!!!! ("None")
Re: 10 Months of my time wasted on Linux. Back to Microsoft for me! (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day (Gary Heston)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "None" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux? The Kings New Clothes!!!
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 02:54:40 GMT
Can you tell us why you are such a pathetic loser? Thanks in advance! :)
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> But they are all naked your majesty, says the 8 year old girl.
>
> Linux is a fucking con job, it is a lame attempt at trying to push an
> operating system that most folks have no interest in.
>
> Try Linux for yourself, $1.99 at Cheapbytes.com will get it to you
> pronto.
>
> Hint: It's overpriced!
>
> When your system is lying legs up in the air like a dying cockroach,
> please let us know,
>
> After you have lost all your data, not to mention your friends, please
> let us know.
>
> When you spend countless hours trying to accomplish the simple task,
> please let us know.
>
> When your Y2k state of the art system is turned into a mid 1990's
> antique, please let us know.
>
> When your clients data does not import correctly into Linux, please let
> us know.
>
> When your video/sound half works please let us know.
>
> You see, WE are Linux, and we want to help. And if you wait another 6
> years or so all of those things might work.
>
> Of course you could run Windows, like everyone else and they would work
> right now.
>
> Linux is Lame and no one can prove otherwise.
>
> Shit, they can't even give it away..............................
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is so stable...
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 02:56:22 GMT
Terry Porter wrote:
>
> On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 21:14:17 GMT, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 20:56:26 GMT, Pete Goodwin
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) wrote in
> >><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >>
> >>> Sometimes you have to consider the source...
> >>
> >>Keep wearing that blind spot. It suits you well.
> Its simple, "Goodwin" is just another Wintroll. He is currently going thru
> the same steps most Wintrols do.
>
> Currently he's at the "pure of heart, Windows using, Linux fault finding stage"
>
>
> Kind Regards
> Terry
It's pretty funny to read some of the obvious trolls and see how they
mimic each
other. It's also funny that even the most outrageous lies make one feel
defensive. It's also funny that there are kind souls who respond with
Zen
calm to these trollers.
Hey, I just got a note sent to me by talk.bizarre. I guess I got
trolled good!
Chris
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux in the Reject Bin at CompUSA
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 02:57:46 GMT
kosh wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Yep, just visited the local CompUSA here and found Redhat/SuSE and the
> > various Linux PowerPacks in the reject bin selling for $20.00 or less
> > (mostly
> > $9.99).
> >
> > Some packages were opened and resealed but others were brand new.
> >
> > I asked the store manager about it and she said that Linux has been one
> > of the worst sellers they have ever had. Virtually every copy returned.
> >
> > She added that most sales were returned by irate customers pissed off at
> > Linux for "erasing" their hard drives.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sounds like Linux is gaining market share alright......Not!!!!
> >
> >
>
> I think it depends on what area you are in. The compusa here in boulder
> regularly sells out any linux dist they get in. Their linux section now
> exceeds the space they devote to the windows os by a lot. I have talked to
> the managers there and linux is selling very nicely there. Mostly because
> of the university. Students taking CS and physics are very likely to pick
> up linux here. Most of the compusa people here even know a fair bit about
> it and the differences between the various dists. They don't carry as many
> linux games as I would like but they do carry most other things. They
> have lots of copies of wordperfect suite 2000 for linux and that is
> selling really well. The only thing I have seen in the discount bin are
> old versions. So when redhat 6.2 came out 6.1 got marked down.
Notice that he didn't say anything about what versions were in the cheap
bins.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just Installed Win 2K and it ROCKS!!!!!!!
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:08:34 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Linux has been assimilated, resistance is futile.
>
> God, after using Linux for the last few months and now installing
> Windows 2k it is like jumping in a time machine and going 10 years
> into the future.
>
> Win 2k installed so easily while Linux is asking me questions about
> Monitor refresh rates and giving me a list of 1985 variety printers to
> choose from.
>
>
> Linux will die shortly and WIndows will live on and on and on and
> on......
Funny, when I upgraded my NT 4.0 setup (Service Pack 5, I believe) to
Win 2000, it complained about my scanner-supporting SCSI card, and I
ended up loading the correct driver from the Win2K CD by hand.
It loaded a crap-ass provisional driver for my Soundblaster Live card
(and this driver crackles and pops when you insert a CD-ROM, and drops
out when you close an Explorer window). The video takes a fairly
long time to update when an Explorer window closes. The translucent
menus sometimes freeze up momentarily. The Shift-click select feature
is unreliable. But back to the install --- it informed me that I could
no longer use my Diskeeper software (so now I have to put up with
fragmented partitions). It made me disable my virus scanner.
All in all, it was a minor hassle to install, and I'm still living with
minor problems.
Nonetheless, Windows 2000 does work well most of the time, and I've
had some pleasure in using it. Not nearly as much pleasure as with
Linux, because on a Windows machine I feel more like an app user than
a developer, but some fun nonetheless.
I haven't seen any signs of Linux dying. On the contrary, its space
on the shelves, in catalogs, and in the bookstores is mounting upwards.
Chris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Linux in the Reject Bin at CompUSA
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:09:25 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when [EMAIL PROTECTED] would say:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 00:01:20 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >Yep, just visited the local CompUSA here and found
>> >Redhat/SuSE and the various Linux PowerPacks in
>> >the reject bin selling for $20.00 or less (mostly
>> >$9.99).
>>
>> This ofcourse begs the question: what happened to all the
>> cases of Corel's Linux that would have likely been laying
>> about that store as they were in my local copy of CompUSA
>> last time I was there.
>>
>> [deletia]
>
>Found the same on a clearance table at the local Staples. I just
>couldn't see parting with $9.99 of my hard earned cash for a copy of
>Caldera 1.3 or Redhat 5.1. But it does bring up an interesting
>question; what happens to all the unsold Microsoft stuff? The Staples
>store overnite got a whole buncha new W2K displays, but there are no
>boxes of WinNT on the clearance table. Where does all the dead
>Microsoftware go?
I thought that Computer Associates was where software went to die...
[Oops. Wrong sector of software sales...]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
A man, a plan, a canoe, pasta, heros, rajahs, a coloratura, maps, snipe,
percale, macaroni, a gag, a banana bag, a tan, a tag, a banana bag again
(or a camel), a crepe, pins, Spam, a rut, a Rolo, cash, a jar, sore
hats, a peon, a canal--Panama!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Heston)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:10:56 GMT
According to EdWIN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Heston) wrote:
[ ... ]
>> Right; Windows doesn't get up to that level of QA.
>Why not? It works very well.
If you like wasting processing power. If you want to do something
like web service, it runs 4x slower than Unix, according to the
Alpha people who tried it.
[ ... ]
>> Doesn't work; you get told to fix it, then you get blamed for it,
>then you
>> get canned for not fixing it.
>Why hasn't that happened where I work?
Your managers are too busy playing golf, fantasy baseball, and checking
out the porn sites to notice? None of that depends upon Windows (other
than their desktops, which are likely rebooted 2-3 times a day; it depends
upon the routers, hubs, switches, and cabling--none of which run on NT.
>> >My employer moved to NT years ago, and it doesn't "fall over
>> >several times a week."
>> Oh, someone else who reboots all their servers weekly.
>Nope.
Daily, then. Or you're not loading them significantly.
>> Still doesn't
>> eliminate BSODs, just reduces them.
>How do you reduce those to less than none?
Are your servers set up to auto-reboot, or halt after a crash? NT
defaults to reboot, which means that a crash may simply appear to
the users as a momentary glitch, most likely believed to be their
system, which seems to go away when they reboot. Unless you dig
through your log files, you won't know--especially since NT generates
blue ball entries for reboots, scheduled or otherwise. (That's
another WinStupidity; crashes don't generate red balls, but a
successful verification of a tape by NTBACKUP *does*. Idiots.)
>> >You do know that Motorola, Adobe, and Pixar have all
>> >standardized on NT, right?
>> ...which tripled their hardware requirements per server, not to
>mention
>> requiring four times as many. Then you end up with a weaker overalll
>> architecture.
>Gee, so you mean Steve Jobs thought it would be a great thing for Pixar
>to triple its hardware requirements per server, while quadrupling his
>number of servers, all to achieve a weaker overall architecture? What
>kind of idiot is Steve Jobs?
Pretty much of one, IMHO. This is the same turkey who decided the Mac
didn't need expansion slots (or any expansion capability at all), which
strangled development of it. Note that with the Mac II, they had slots
again... Then, he not only lost control of Apple, he blew millions trying
to do another nonstandard system, failing miserably.
When he got back there, he broke all the supply agreements to the Mac
clone makers, killing any business which required multiple sources and
causing even more bitterness. I don't recommend Macs, in large part
because they have a history of shafting their users. And, their networking
is worse than Windows for large nets.
> And what about those fools at Adobe and
>Motorola who wanted to do the same? Steve Jobs must have talked them
>into it, huh?
Maybe. They should have paid attention to the production crew which
did _The Titannic_. They used a farm of Dec Alphas running Linux, with
a few DUnix systems thrown in for some reason. IIRC, that movie did
fairly well.
Gary
--
Gary Heston [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"We in the government knew when we got an email titled "ILOVEYOU" that
something was wrong." Senator Fred Thompson quoted by ZDNet
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Segmentation Fault?
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:12:20 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> You are running Linux.
> Seg faults are normal operation for Linux.
>
> See the SegFault How-To for information
>
> Sponge
>
>
I haven't had one yet, and I've got Linux on three
machines. Even more dangerously, one of them dual boots
to Win2000, and another one triple boots to Win98 and WinNT SP-5,
/and/ it's a laptop!
Also, I connect them together, and the Windows machines haven't
brought down the Linux machines yet.
Chris
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:14:31 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> Same thing here, Print causes a virtual shutdown.
>
Usually, when you screw up a configuration item, you get
problems. For example, if I unplug my network cable, Linux
takes a lot longer to boot while three different network daemons
each time out in turn.
But you're not really interested in getting Linux to work, are you?
Chris
------------------------------
From: "None" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just Installed Win 2K and it ROCKS!!!!!!!
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 02:57:18 GMT
And you paid $219 for that right? or $319 if it wasn't an upgrade.
Glad you're getting something in return! Bill Gates thanks you!
(NOT but he willl take your money and run!)
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Linux has been assimilated, resistance is futile.
>
> God, after using Linux for the last few months and now installing
> Windows 2k it is like jumping in a time machine and going 10 years into
> the future.
>
> Win 2k installed so easily while Linux is asking me questions about
> Monitor refresh rates and giving me a list of 1985 variety printers to
> choose from.
>
> Does anyone really use an HP LaserJet 500 anymore?
>
> How about Sound Blaster Live support?
>
> Linux had the jump on Windows 2k, yet Windows 2k has Livewire support
> and Linux does not.
>
> Why is that?
>
> Maybe Creative knows the future and is applying it's resources
> appropriately.
>
> Sorry, but Linux is a bunch of promises and Windows 2k delivers right
> now on the spot.
>
> Linux will die shortly and WIndows will live on and on and on and
> on......
>
>
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 10 Months of my time wasted on Linux. Back to Microsoft for me!
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:22:09 GMT
Tiberious wrote:
>
>
> The basic problem was that NOBODY WANTED LINUX!!!!
>
> We couldn't GIVE IT AWAY!
>
> They were so entrenched in Windows that to even consider switching was
> out of the question.
>
> Linux is lagging terribly in polished world class applications. Even the
> SoundBlaster Live card has Liveware! available for Win2k, despite Win2k
> just being released.
When I bought Win2k, it had only a provisional driver, rather crappy.
Creative finally brought out an SBLive driver, and they've about
finished
one for Linux.
Truthfully, part of the problem in your story was that you didn't do
your
market research before diving in.
Businessmen (and I love what George Carlin has to say about them) have
this
equation in mind: Bill Gates is smart = Microsoft software is good =
Bill Gates
is rich = I'm smart if I buy Microsoft = I'll be rich too.
These are the same corporate VPs who vote themselves a big bonus during
times
of layoffs, and who will do these layoffs to save money, but hire back
the
employee as a consultant to do the work.
Oh well.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Heston)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: Why We Should Be Nice To Windows Users -was- Neologism of the day
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 03:46:05 GMT
According to James E. Freedle II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
[ ... ]
>Command line will disappear once people get over the notion that they
>are neccessary.
I could say the same about GUIs. I waste more time fighting with the
GUI as its' doing things I don't want it to than getting work done.
> I only use one when I have to, and not by choice. I am a
>technical user, and I do not use the CLI unless there is no other way.
I.e., you don't want to learn how to use it, and you are laboring under
the misconception that Microsoft provides a usable CLI at the Windows
Command Prompt. They don't. It's about 10% of what's available on Unix.
> I
>see users everyday trip and fumble on CLI of the Sun server that we use
>everyday.
Maybe they should take the radical step of reading a book, and learn
something. CLIs (on real OSs) have a tremendous amount of power; like
anything with more capability, it takes training to take avantage of
it--much like it takes more training to fly an F-15 than a Piper Cub.
> The CLI is not very intuitive, because you have to visualize
>what to do next.
What??? You're required to THINK to use a CLI, and as a programmer, you
don't think this is a good thing? Glad I won't have to maintain any of
the code you're writing...
> The only people that think that the CLI is intuitive,
>are the people how where told that they will learn it, and therefore
>they pass this on. This is not improvement, but putting off the
>invetable.
Intuitive is in the eye of the beholder. I don't find Windows intuitive,
I find it time wastingly repetitive. Every time I want to open an
application, I have to click through the same stupid sequence; once I
get the app open, I have to click through the same hierarchy of drives
and directories, excuse me, "folders", to get to the file I need, then
I have to plow through another bunch of menus and directories to get to
the next one. Setting up shortcuts for every possible command I'm going
to use is impractical and a waste of time, because it all vanishes in
the next crash.
Aside from that, I waste far too much time moving my right hand between
the keyboard and the mouse. Even with my crummy typing skills, I can
type "vi ~/hardware/cluster/motherboards" faster than I can get Notepad
open, then tell it I want to open a file, then get it to the right drive
(because it's *never* where I want to work, and forgets between sessions)
then plow down to where I need to be.
> The CLI will fade just like the dinosaurs! In my experence,
>scripts are neccessary when the program was written incorrectly.
Well, then as long as Windows exists, the CLI will be necessary. Most
of it is written incorrectly.
> The
>correctly written program would function as the user needs, not as the
>programmer's think. User's dictate the usage of the program, not the
>programmer!
Strange, Windows inherently *prevents* me, as a user, from doing what I
want and need to do. I can't automate any of the dozens of steps I have
to go through to get things done; I can't create a background task on NT
and leave it running after logging out; when I need to switch between my
regular account and my admin account, I have to log out, wait for the
stupid roaming profile waste time copying unchanged files, log in, do
whatever minor task was needed, log back out as admin, log back in as
user, and plow through menus again to get back where I was.
Under Unix/Linux, I can get another login session with a double key, keep
my original session active, and switch back and forth as needed in a second.
Which is easier? Which is more efficient? Which does Microsoft themselves
use internally on their critical nets? Hint: same answer to all three, and
it's not Windows.
Gary
--
Gary Heston [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"We in the government knew when we got an email titled "ILOVEYOU" that
something was wrong." Senator Fred Thompson quoted by ZDNet
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
