Linux-Advocacy Digest #976, Volume #26 Thu, 8 Jun 00 12:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Linux? The Kings New Clothes!!! (WhyteWolf)
Re: Linux? The Kings New Clothes!!! (WhyteWolf)
the bar is being raised... (Salvador Peralta)
Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies (Brian Langenberger)
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: 3 OS's on one machine win98-win2k-linux (Tim Kelley)
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Jack Troughton)
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Innovation (Cihl)
Re: Innovation (Cihl)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 15:04:29 GMT
In article <8ho83s$ds$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> <snip!>
>
> : Thank you for the help above but I have another question for you. I
> : need to set a path to another machine. I am on a local network.
Do I
> : need to map a drive? Is there a way to map a drive on Linux and if
so,
> : how? And where is the best place to put this path in my startup
file?
>
> Hmm, what sort of machine is it? If it's a UNIX-type box, you'll want
> to look into NFS to share the files you need to your local machine.
> If it's a Windows box, you'll want to look into Samba instead.
> Unfortunately, either case is a bit too complex to explain in a
> simple usenet post, so you can find more information at:
>
> http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/NFS-HOWTO.html
>
> for NFS and:
>
> http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/SMB-HOWTO.html
>
> for Samba (particularly the "Accessing a SMB Share With Linux
Machines" part)
>
> I recommend making hard copy of the one you need and giving it a good
> read to understand all the pesky concepts and security stuff that
> comes with file sharing. But in the end you'll probably just be
> making a slight adjustment to your /etc/fstab file or installing
> an .RPM or two, so the amount of actual work on your end isn't
> all that much.
>
> : Thanks in advance. I really appreciate it.
>
> We're just compulsive helpers :)
>
>
I am connecting to a Windows box and Novell. I have already
established the Samba Server. I see the Samba Server allowing access
to the directories that I share from the Linux Box but I don't see how
that allows shares from the Windows machine. Is there anything similar
to a Network Neighborhood on Linux? I have tried editing
the /etc/fstab file but I am not sure where to mount the surrounding
machine on the Linux Box. I know that a floppy is /dev/fd0 and the
hard disk is /dev/hd1 (etc) but where would I put another machine? Do
I use a hard disk? Is there a special format like the floppy and the
cdrom? I am sorry for asking so many questions. I have the RedHat
book but it only contains a very limited amount of information. Thank
you again for your advice. Jeannie
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 15:06:35 GMT
On 06/07/2000 at 10:58 PM,
Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Bob Germer wrote:
> >
> > There were at least 5 major word processing programs for the Intel
> > platform in 1984 when these decisions were made, WordStar, Word,
> > WordPerfect, Volkswriter, and one whose name I don't recall.
> IBM DisplayWriter perhaps? Was Broderbund's "Bank Street Writer" around
> back then?
I had forgotten DisplayWriter. No I was thinking of a product put out by
Brown Bag Software. I didn't have any experience with Bank Street, but it
was a player to be sure. I also forgot that Lotus also came out with what
became AmiPro long before there was a MS monopoly.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 15:06:52 GMT
On 06/08/2000 at 09:00 AM,
John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> My attributions are just fine. They say exactly what you said they did.
> John Wiltshire
No they were not. You attributed to me a paragraph in which both inferior
and superior were incorrectly spelled and in which the word wintroll was
used. I did not write that paragraph no matter how many times you try to
get people to believe what has now escalated to the level of outright
lying on your part.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 15:06:55 GMT
On 06/08/2000 at 09:01 AM,
John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Actually, I think you'll find most large and medium companies do deals
> with salesmen and not through the retail channel. What you see on the
> web site is *not* what the large companies are buying.
They still are buying from the same OEM's and all supplied Win9x for the
past 6 years whether the company wanted it or not. I have dealt with HP,
Compaq, Dell, IBM, etc. on purchases of as many as 500 machines and they
would not provide bare machines or machines w/o Windows or NT.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (WhyteWolf)
Subject: Re: Linux? The Kings New Clothes!!!
Date: 8 Jun 2000 15:02:22 GMT
In article <8hmvd8$re$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I take it you've had a bad day in court....
heheh think he didn't like the news?
I jsut can't wait till the appeal is
denied
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
--
-=-=-=-=-
Qvid me anxivs svm?
-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (WhyteWolf)
Subject: Re: Linux? The Kings New Clothes!!!
Date: 8 Jun 2000 15:01:14 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>But they are all naked your majesty, says the 8 year old girl.
humm funny thats how I felt in windows ... with every cracker
and script kiddie being able to see everything on my hard drive
>
>Linux is a fucking con job, it is a lame attempt at trying to push an
>operating system that most folks have no interest in.
humm thank the goddess I"m not most folks ... I would go insane with
stupidity
>
>Try Linux for yourself, $1.99 at Cheapbytes.com will get it to you
>pronto.
I have been trying linux myself ... sence 1995 ..
>
>Hint: It's overpriced!
>
thats your opinion .. not a fact
>When your system is lying legs up in the air like a dying cockroach,
>please let us know,
>
well isn't that cute ... BUT ITS WRONG
my ssytem is running just fine thank you very much
been running linux on this computer sence I got it back from my mom
in feb.
>After you have lost all your data, not to mention your friends, please
>let us know.
>
lost friends? ... not really ... in fact I got most of my friends to
use linux because they like the feel and power of it more
then win9X
>When you spend countless hours trying to accomplish the simple task,
>please let us know.
>
countless hours? hell I"m ushaly on IRC, reading usenet,
surfing the web and compiling while talking to people on
ICQ ... at the same time ... I tried that with windows and the
compling would have thrown the entire computer off
>When your Y2k state of the art system is turned into a mid 1990's
>antique, please let us know.
>
humm actualy my system started out a mid 90's antique in hardware
but now runs about on par with my friends 366 running
win98SE
>When your clients data does not import correctly into Linux, please
>let us know.
>
humm my clients data imports fine ... in fact I ushaly just
read the disk they gave me no matter what it was formatted on
I have still to see a windows computer read a mac formatted disk
hell even macs can read windows formatted disks
>When your video/sound half works please let us know.
humm actualy they seem to be working better in linux not at half ...
>
>You see, WE are Linux, and we want to help. And if you wait another 6
>years or so all of those things might work.
>
they already do work ...
>Of course you could run Windows, like everyone else and they would
>work right now.
>
ahhh peer prusure ... to me ... Windows is like a drug ...
but everyone else is doing it ...
>Linux is Lame and no one can prove otherwise.
>
your right no one can prove to you otherwise ... your to close minded
and really dont' seem to know what your talking about
you bring in abratary terms that windows does this and this and this
when in fact windows doesn't the programs you add to windows does
then I bring in programs for linux that do the same thing and all you
say is Bullshit ...
>Shit, they can't even give it away..............................
>
they can't? .. thats funny the numbers say diffrently
--
-=-=-=-=-
A man fell off a mountain and, as he fell, saw a branch and grabbed for it.
By superhuman effort he was able to get a precarious grip on it. As he
was hanging there for dear life, he looked up and cried out,
"Is anybody there?"
A deep majestic voice answered,
"Yes my son, I am here. What do you need?"
"Help me!!" cried the man.
"I will help you", said the voice, "Just let go of the branch and
you'll be safe. All you have to do is trust."
The man thought for a moment and cried out:
"Anybody ELSE up there?"
-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: the bar is being raised...
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 08:34:09 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The LA Times reported tuesday that M$ plans to invest $2 billion in
developer support and improved tools for their web-based applications to
keep their developers and third-party vendors loyal to the os.
According to Zdnet, they are waving millions at potential web
integrators to partner with M$.
http://www.zdnet.com/sp/stories/news/0,4538,2581309,00.html
The goal, obviously, is to keep developers "loyal" to WinDevelopment
through their loyalty to the almighty dollar. To those developers, I
will simply say that the money will be there regardless of which os you
build for. The corporate world is starved for talent and solutions, and
anyone with application development and/or system administration talent
can make a pile of money in this industry.
The long-term prospects for open source developers are better than the
long-term prospects for winDevelopers. For one thing, the cost of
development in open source is shared by multiple companies, individuals,
schools, and foundations. The shift from competition to collaboration
works to everyones benefit and is one of the reasons why linux has
improved so quickly, why M$ is so scared of open source, and why tools
like perl have built such a dizzying array of useful components like
wideranging database support including oracle and db2, and modules that
support every major open protocol despite the fact that it is a
relatively new language.
For another, let's not forget the predatory nature of M$. They look
after themselves first, and will bury a third-party partner in a
heartbeat if they feel that it's in their corporate interest. If you
develop for windows and your company sits in a market niche that M$
wants for itself, it will bury you to grab that niche. For another,
building aps that interface with M$'s proprietary api is like building
castles in the sand. Every time the company updates a .dll that your
application requires, you'll be sweating the need for a revision to keep
your application compatible.
And remember that M$'s ability to deliver on the promise of money and
tools is linked to the value of their stock and after they are split up,
their stock won't be worth enough to follow through on their $2 billion
investment promise.
To open sourcers, I like to say that what this latest M$ strategy shows
me is that the Redmond beast wants us dead and buried. They are willing
to spend upwards of a tenth of their total value, and probably 30-40% of
its working capital to retain and attract developers in order to make
that happen.
It also shows me that M$ sees how vulnerable they are to linux,
especially when it comes to deploying web-based applications and
integrating web-enabled applications with legacy systems.
But vulnerable or not, the msdn has 4 million members, which I daresay
is comparable to the total installed-base for linux. While there is a
part of me that doesn't give a rat's a$$ about what is going on in
redmond, there is another part that recognizes that this raises the bar
for all of us who want to continue to provide our customers and
employers with the best tools for use in their business.
I would encourage any linvocate in this group to take a look at their
efforts WRT improving and/or promoting linux and see whether they can do
a little more than they are currently doing.
Regards,
Salvador Peralta
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.la-online.com
------------------------------
From: Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux+Java, the best combination of techologies
Date: 8 Jun 2000 15:52:26 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<snip!>
: I am connecting to a Windows box and Novell. I have already
: established the Samba Server. I see the Samba Server allowing access
: to the directories that I share from the Linux Box but I don't see how
: that allows shares from the Windows machine. Is there anything similar
: to a Network Neighborhood on Linux? I have tried editing
: the /etc/fstab file but I am not sure where to mount the surrounding
: machine on the Linux Box. I know that a floppy is /dev/fd0 and the
: hard disk is /dev/hd1 (etc) but where would I put another machine? Do
: I use a hard disk? Is there a special format like the floppy and the
: cdrom? I am sorry for asking so many questions. I have the RedHat
: book but it only contains a very limited amount of information. Thank
: you again for your advice. Jeannie
Ahh, I see. Okay, this should be pretty simple. If you've
got a share named: \\foo\bar that contains your files, your best
bet would be to make a directory in /mnt named "bar" (if only
to cut down on the confusion) and then you can add something like
the following line to your /etc/fstab file:
\\foo\bar /mnt/bar smbfs noauto,owner,user,ro 0 0
("noauto" means it won't mount on bootup,
"user" means an ordinary user (possibly yourself) can mount the directory,
"owner", I believe, means that only that same user can unmount the directory,
"ro" means the directory is read-only (probably a good idea))
and then just type:
mount /mnt/bar
at a command prompt to have the files shared from \\foo\bar to /mnt/bar
(though it'll likely ask you for \\foo\bar's password first)
Hopefully this is a bit more informative.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Date: 8 Jun 2000 15:56:44 GMT
On Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:17:01 -0700, Jim Richardson wrote:
>On 7 Jun 2000 15:10:50 GMT,
> Donovan Rebbechi, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> brought forth the following words...:
>I am not sure of the context here, but rpmfind doesn't care if the program
>is installed yet or not, AFAIK, neither does debians package manager/updater
>thingy.
So how does one update, say Star Office or acrobat reader, or anything
else that's not on the "central download site" that these tools use ?
The problem with these tools is they assume that all the software is in
a single repository. As Linux gets more and more software, this is becoming
less and less true.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 3 OS's on one machine win98-win2k-linux
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:53:27 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ... the problem is, since FIPS changed the MBR, windows2000
> freaked out, and didn't know where to find it's root directory, so win98
> boots up fine, but when I try to load win2k I get the message
> "ntoskrnl.exe could not be found in the following directory
> <windows2000root>\system32\ntoskrnl.exe please verify the file is not
> missing or corrupt and replace"
A little advocacy ... linux would never have this problem because
of the enormous flexibility the boot loader gives you. The "/"
changed? no problem. Just type
LILO: linux root=/dev/hda(blah)
--
Tim Kelley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Date: 8 Jun 2000 15:57:26 GMT
On 7 Jun 2000 11:57:26 -0500, Leslie Mikesell wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I suspect that if Mandrake adds a new item to their 'updates'
>the system would allow you to pick it and install it.
That works just fine as long as you stick to software that's in the Mandrake
distribution.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: Jack Troughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:48:38 -0400
Donavon Pfeiffer Jr wrote:
>
> >
> > > > > > > We are not so mendacious as to soak our citizens for onerous
> > > > > > > taxes which are given back in large part to visitors when they leave the
> > > > > > > US.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Huh? Care to explain what you meant by that?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yep. In most Canadian provinces, the HST, GST, PST whatever they choose to
> > > > > call it is refunded for purchases made by visitors when one leaves Canada.
> > > > > At major crossing points, there are 24 hour/7 day shops which give one an
> > > > > instant refund. Alternately, one can pick up forms all over each province
> > > > > and mail in the receipts and get a check back. In Nova Scotia, one gets
> > > > > back the tax on hotel bills, clothing, souvenirs, toiletries, film, etc.
> > >
> > > > In other words, we don't tax the citizens of other countries when they
> > > > come to visit us. This is supposed to be a bad thing?
> > >
> > > Not for the tourists. True for the citizenry.
> >
> > Considering some of the benefits I get, it's not that true.
>
> Speaking of which, when I travel to Montreal,I never turn in my receipts at the
> border as the enjoyment I've gotten from that city and it's freindly, courteous
>citizens
> has always been well worth the money I've spent. I usually don't run into any
>assholes
> until I get back into Vermont on the way home.However when I went to Quebec I made
>sure
> to turn all my receipts in.I live one town over from one of the biggest summer
>vacation
> towns for the Qubecois, Old Orchard Beach. I can't understand how people who expect
>us
> to cater to their language when they visit, get insulted if we show up as visitors
>to
> their home and don't know their language.
Yeah, well, while Ville de Quebec's sky is blue, all the clouds are
shaped like fleurs-des-lis. The provincial government is there, and
since they are scared shitless by multilingual, multiethnic Montreal
(which consistently votes strongly against sovereignty, franco and
anglo and ethnic all), they've been punishing the city for years.
They seem to want to kill the main driver of the Quebec economy for
some reason. However, they've been changing their tune over the last
six months; I think even they are beginning to realize that they
stand a very good chance of getting pounded in the next election due
to the growing realization that the Parti Quebecois is letting their
ideology get in the way of managing the province well. They were
supposed to have Yet Another Neverendum by y2k, but they realized
that the _French_ voters would punish them harshly for the waste of
money. They may get punished anyway in the election that's due in
another two years or so... let's hope so, anyway; they've been
behaving like clowns for years.
IMHO, of course.
Jack
Montreal PQ
CANADA
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:01:56 GMT
On 8 Jun 2000 15:56:44 GMT, Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:17:01 -0700, Jim Richardson wrote:
>>On 7 Jun 2000 15:10:50 GMT,
>> Donovan Rebbechi, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> brought forth the following words...:
>
>>I am not sure of the context here, but rpmfind doesn't care if the program
>>is installed yet or not, AFAIK, neither does debians package manager/updater
>>thingy.
>
>So how does one update, say Star Office or acrobat reader, or anything
>else that's not on the "central download site" that these tools use ?
...much in the same way that systems without real package managers
would have to. Sort of "installshield" type script would have to
do the gruntwork.
>
>The problem with these tools is they assume that all the software is in
>a single repository. As Linux gets more and more software, this is becoming
>less and less true.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:03:07 GMT
On 8 Jun 2000 15:57:26 GMT, Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 7 Jun 2000 11:57:26 -0500, Leslie Mikesell wrote:
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>I suspect that if Mandrake adds a new item to their 'updates'
>>the system would allow you to pick it and install it.
>
>That works just fine as long as you stick to software that's in the Mandrake
>distribution.
Actually, Mandrake is specifically intended to be compatible with
whatever the current Redhat version happens to be at the time at
the RPM level.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Innovation
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:06:57 GMT
Doc Shipley wrote:
>
> Cihl wrote:
> >
> > Maybe it would be good to start a thread about this. Would anybody
> > have any ideas? Is anybody missing something from the whole of OS's?
>
> Dude,
> You're absolutely right about Linux' lack of new concpts in our code.
> However, while looking for skeeters, you missed the elephant on your
> foot.
Now that you mention it, my foot IS a little sore. :-)
> GNU & Linux may not have actually invented the concept of " world-wide
> internet collaboration", but GNU/Linux made it work. And quite
> spectacularly, if I must say so myself.
I didn't miss that. I don't think we should just stop there, though.
--
A world without poverty, a world without greed.
One without armies, without borders, .
We CAN do it ourselves, we MUST do it ourselves.
For everybody, from everybody.
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Innovation
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:09:56 GMT
Osugi Sakae wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Cihl
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In a reply to someone, i reminded myself of the fact that the
> >Linux-community as a whole hasn't really come up with any good
> >innovations yet. We're blaming Microsoft for something we're
> ourselves
> >guilty of.
> >Everything we have is basically copied from Unix, Apple and
> Microsoft.
> >
>
> Maybe I missed something, but is the linux community as a whole
> claiming to be "innovative"? One of my problems with MS is that
> they consistently claim more than the facts support. In short,
> they are lieing. For me, this is more important than whether or
> not they are innovating.
This is true. The Linux community can't be caught lying to anybody.
(well, maybe in this NG, but not about innovation anyway)
But it's not really about -claiming- to be innovative, but rather
about -being- innovative.
> If responsible linux advocates are claiming more than they can
> support with fact, than they are just as guilty as MS (though
> proly on a smaller scale).
Correct.
> --
> Osugi Sakae
> I experienced my first real earthquake the other day. It was fun.
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
--
A world without poverty, a world without greed.
One without armies, without borders, .
We CAN do it ourselves, we MUST do it ourselves.
For everybody, from everybody.
------------------------------
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