Linux-Advocacy Digest #979, Volume #26 Thu, 8 Jun 00 16:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: How Pete Goodwin Can Fix "The sad Linux story" (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Winmodems )Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux) (Jan Knutar)
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Peter Ammon)
Re: There is only one innovation that matters... (was Re: Micros~1 innovations)
(James Lee)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: VB suck and Java rules (James Lee)
Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ? (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Donavon Pfeiffer Jr)
Re: Bob's Law (Mayor)
Re: The State of the System Address ("KLH")
Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux (David E. Thomas)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (nohow)
Re: Bob's Law ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:11:35 -0500
> >>> >Superior TCP-IP stack!
> >>>
> >>> How is it superior? Does Linux support IPV6 yet?
> >>Yes. I think it does (?)
> >
> >Yes it does.
>
> Ah, so Linux does have IPV6. Is anyone actually using it as yet? Has the
> rest of the world caught up with this technology as yet?
OK, I have to jump in here. You are asking if it supports something,
then jumping on attack mode when someone tells you it does. What the
hell is wrong with you?!?!?!?!?!?! I can't believe it. Every once in
while you have valid arguments, but this one is stupid. It sounds like
this:
Person1: Steak is really good. Have you ever tasted it?
Person2: Yes I have tasted it and it is good.
Person1: Well if it's so damn good then why the hell isn't everyone
eating steak?
This type of argument makes no sense at all. Linux supports IPV6. That
is a new (relatively) technology. Supporting it makes sense. Are you
suggesting that support should be dropped until such time as the rest of
the world catches up and then it should be brought back. Yeah, that
would be good for MS, "LOOK HERE. LINUX IS DROPPING SUPPORT FOR THE NEW
STANDARD!" Yeah, go for it.
Nathaniel Jay Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --
> ------------
> Pete Goodwin
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: How Pete Goodwin Can Fix "The sad Linux story"
Date: 8 Jun 2000 14:17:45 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
John Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> And Linux is not Unix.
>> >
>> > Why not?
>>
>> None of it's code is owned by the people who own the trademark.
>>
>> Les Mikesell
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> So BSD, SunOS, Solaris, AIX(maybe), HPUX, etc are not UNIX?
BSD isn't, in spite of those who might claim that bsd defines
unix. The others contain licensed code derived from the
AT&T original. Actually these days using the trademark involves
passing a test suite, but as far as I know, all versions that
have paid the fee and passed are based on the original in one
way or another.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:19:13 -0500
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> On Mon, 05 Jun 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >I was sorta wondering how long it would take NT to catch up to
> >UNIX/Linux; ya know, like open industry standards, published APIs,
> >scalability, interoperability, reliability, blah blah blah....
> >
> >The bullies at Redmond don't want to play with the rest of us, tho.
> >Hope they choke and die, in a strictly business sense of course.
> >
> >
> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >Before you buy.
>
> Exactly my opinion.
>
> When it comes to security, Windows has none.
> When it comes to UPTIME, Windows has none.
> When it comes to Multitasking 1000 processes with complete control, Windows
> can't seem to get beyond 180 before bluescreening.
>
> When it comes to large memory access, large hard drive access, windows
> can't do either.
>
> When it comes to the desktop, Gnome and KDE pretty well have their number.
>
> Windows is like the girl who doesn't smoke, drink or stay up late.
Woah dude, I was with you until this statement. Personally I see this
as the other way around. Windows is the one that does smoke, drink and
stay up late. Sooner or later that girl is gonna wind up pregnant and
sitting on her ass collecting government cheese and welfare because the
deadbeat dad left her skanky butt, but the one that went to bed early,
stayed out of trouble, didn't drink and didn't smoke (Linux, following
the actual rules of OS development, good clean code, following published
API's, making your new API's open) ends up growing up to get a kick ass
job making a fortune yet can still go home at night and get a good
night's sleep because she knows what she got was from hard work.
Carefull with the analogies there. I don't think we need people looking
at Linux as the slut from high school that any shithead could sleep
with, but no one respected.
Nathaniel Jay Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jan Knutar)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Winmodems )Re: Need ideas for university funded project for linux)
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 11:55:56 GMT
On 2 Jun 2000 14:59:14 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donal K. Fellows) wrote:
>In article <3934f551.1073003@news>, Jan Knutar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> My 33.6 modem often passes 128Kb/s when sucking usenet posts.
>
>Your USENET newsgroup set must be more compressible than mine; I
>rarely get more than 90Kb/s through a faster connection (and yes, it
>is going full tilt...)
>
>(Perhaps I read groups with more new signal in them and less repeated
>noise. :^)
Hmm.. I did mean to write 128 Kilo bits per second and not bytes per
second, can't remember what 'b' stands for bit and what b stands for
byte...
--
JK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Any attempt to stretch fuel is guaranteed to increase headwind.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 19:22:21 GMT
On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:01:16 -0500, Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Pete Goodwin wrote:
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) wrote in
>> <8hm3gp$8fe$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>> >Which process caused the problem? If you don't have a postscript
>> >printer, graphics end up being rendered to bitmaps by ghostscript
>> >but unless you are short on RAM and it makes the machine swap
>> >it should not cause the system to crawl.
>>
>> As soon as I managed to stop the printer queue, the slow crawl stop. It
>> took me a while to figure out lprm removes a print job, so I deleted it and
>> restarted the queue.
>>
>> My machine has 128MBytes of RAM and 256MByte swap partition.
>
>256MB single swap partition is a waste as Linux will recognize a 128MB
Kernel 2.2 reomved that limitation.
[deletia]
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: Peter Ammon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:23:25 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob Germer wrote:
>
>
> Applescript is more akin to a dos batch file than Rexx. It is much less
> capable,
How so?
> doesn't allow direct compiling to an executable,
Yes it does. Choose "Save as Run-Only" and choose "Classic Application."
> etc. It is not
> capable of TCP/IP, etc.
I'm not sure what you mean by "capable of TCP/IP," but I wrote several
CGI scripts that accepted data from a POST form along with WebStar.
There are some insanely powerful plugins, like PreFab Player, that let
you simulate mouse clicks, keyboard clicks, menu selections, etc. and
vary them depending on the dialog, window, application, internal
variables, or whatever, even if the application is not inherently
scriptable. PreFab Player can do, in theory, almost anything I can do.
The downside is that PreFab costs 139, or $79 with an educational discount.
I don't know much about REXX, but I suspect that AppleScript has one
advantage over it: the ability to record scripts by clicking the record
button and performing actions like you normally would.
-Peter
--
"Dance, MSN boy, dance!" -Microsoft's Self-Parodic Commercial
------------------------------
From: James Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.be.advocacy,comp.os.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: There is only one innovation that matters... (was Re: Micros~1
innovations)
Date: 8 Jun 2000 19:26:52 GMT
In comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy Stephen S. Edwards II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Microsoft's main innovation is quite obvious: putting lots of computing
> power into the hands of general consumers. Who else, besides, Commodore,
> Apple, IBM, or Atari has even attempted this? The beloved UNIX weenies at
> Sun? Silicon Graphics (officially renamed to "SGI")? Yeah... _right_.
Server power were missed by quite a few posters.
Yes, server power of NetBSD, FreeBSD, Linux, etc
are all available on the PC, starting from a
386, although any Pentium is good.
Win9x can't give you that power. You'll
x times more than resources the above OSes can give.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 19:15:34 GMT
> Bob Germer wrote:
> [...]
> I saw the signs to the major E-W highway listing nord, sud, est,
> ouest. I saw the signs for exits in both languages, services in
> both languages, while driving from Vancouver to Calgary in 1995.
] In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
] Jack Troughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
]
] Sure you did. I'd refer you to another post in this thread from Alan
] Baker, a Vancouverite. You are talking bullshit about which you know
] nothing again, Bob.
Bob is correct. In preparation for the Calgary Winter Olympics
multilingual directional signs were placed on the major highways
between Calgary and other international airports (Vancouver,
Edmonton, Saskatoon, and Winnipeg).
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: James Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: VB suck and Java rules
Date: 8 Jun 2000 19:33:55 GMT
In comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Solaris would disappoint; theres no reason to run one
> anyway, since no one in their right minds uses Solaris X86
> in a server capacity. Linux may not have disappointed, but
> good luck finding all kinds of funky drivers for compaq's
> entirely proprietary server architecture.
What! I use x86 Solaris right now on a 180MHz Pentium Pro
machine. Been using it for research. Network to other Linux,
Sun machines to run big jobs (that takes days).
Very stable, except for occasional X lock-ups. Most like X's
fault. Still can telnet it and kill X. got rebooted recently
when my son visits the lab and press the reset button.
Wish they had virtual consoles like Linux, though.
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How many years for Linux to catch up to NT on the desktop ?
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:38:57 -0500
John Culleton wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) wrote:
> > On 6 Jun 2000 01:55:06 GMT, Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > No it doesn't. Whereas WinDOS DOES have to be actively maintained.
> > A Unix can pretty much be ingored once deployed to the point where
> > the original maintainer, someone capable of contributing kernel
> > module code, has forgotten how to do any administration.
> >
>
> Depends on the user of course. If you install a new printer, scanner
> etc. both systems will reqauire some fiddling. Otherwise, what
> maintenance does WinDOS require for the average home or office user? (A
> server or a technical workstation is another matter.) Can you cite some
> examples?
As an example, I would offer the upgrade advisories that are almost
constantly pouring out of Windows and virous scanning software. Your
users have to know how to download/install the updates to protect
themselves from new threats. However, if you get a Unix/Linux system
set up nice and stable without opening up any ports to the outside (and
why would they need ports open for a desktop system) you won't need to
worry about updating things. It will run the same three years from the
day it was installed as it did that very day. Assuming of course that
the person didn't use up all of the drive space.
Nathaniel Jay Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> John Culleton ---------> Please visit http://ccpl.carr.org/~john/
>
> My Linux Slackware system on Wednesday June 7 2000 at 9:01am
> up 24 days, 10 hours 39 mins since last reboot ;-)
> / | \
> >
> > Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
> >
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 15:48:18 -0400
From: Donavon Pfeiffer Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
I did not fail to pick up on it. I responded to the "right wing"
characterisation. The fact is both sides are guilty of what you describe.
Conservatives want to remove sex and liberals want to remove God. Socials
conservatives don't want you to be gay,have an abortion or not be held
accountable for your own actions, liberals don't want you to have a gun,
smoke, make a profit or go through life without shame if you are a straight,
white, male or be responsible for your own actions unless you are straight,
white male.
Libertarians want you to stand on your own two feet, be free to
make your own choices and accept the responsibilities for your own actions.
Eric Bennett wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > > > > I might have given that statement some credit if it wasn't for the
> > > > > way
> > > > > you use the word "liberal" - as if it was a bad thing.
> > > > It most assuredly is in the way it is used in the US. Liberal here
> > > > means
> > > > an all-controlling, big brother goverment which attempts to control
> > > > every
> > > > action of every citizen except the elite ruling class.
> > >
> > > If you're a right-winger, anyway. Of course, it's possible
> > > right-wingers
> > > are the *only* people in the US who still use the word "liberal".
> > >
> >
> > No, we Libertarians use it too. It refers to people who believe
> > that
> > citizens are sheep incapable of thought and responsibility for their own
> > actions.
> > This philosophy leads to an ever expanding government which tries to do
> > all the
> > thinking for its citizenry until said citizenry is incapable of thinking
> > for itself.
>
> But then you are missing out on the conservatives, who think it
> appropriate to regulate what people are allowed to see and do, and to
> regulate aspects of their personal behavior. It's amazing how many
> people (even libertarians) fail to pick up on the government abuses of
> the conservative side.
>
> --
> Eric Bennett ( http://www.pobox.com/~ericb/ )
> Cornell University / Chemistry & Chemical Biology
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bob's Law
From: Mayor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:44:07 -0700
In article <vAR%4.30427$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Jeff Glatt writes:
>
>>> Mayor writes:
>
>>>>> Bob Lyday writes:
>
>>>>>> Bob's Law invoked. Tholen mentioned. Thread is now
>>>>>> officially dead.
>
>>>>> Illogical.
>
>>>> Since when has logic had anything to do with Usenet?
>
>>> Since I started posting.
>
>> The University of Hawaii has had to reprimand you for
violation of
>> their abuse policy since you started posting too
>
>Prove it, if you think you can, Glatt.
What Glatt can prove is irrelevant.
>I suppose borg.com would be interested to learn that you're
>still at it.
What borg.com would be interested to learn is irrelevant as well.
What Glatt is still at is only relevant if it involves underage
girls. Since that is unlikely, Glatt being Glatt after all, I
move that Glatt be found guilty and we recess for lunch. After
lunch we can reconvene and move on to the sentencing phase. All
in favor signify by saying, "I burn tires on Earth Day".
--
Come and see my new website!
http://home.pacbell.net/rfovell/bozosity.html
Generously donated and maintained by
THE Robert Fovell of CSMA fame.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
------------------------------
From: "KLH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The State of the System Address
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:52:40 -0700
> On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 04:01:48 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (CAguy) wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 21:37:42 GMT, Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >>Problem is, that when users get used to using a certain OS daily, they
> >>will use whatever works well, and avoid the rest. I think that's why
> >>Windows users, and Mac users for that matter, usually avoid working
> >>with two or more programs at the same time.
> >>Typical features like the clipboard would therefore actually be more
> >>useful to Linux than it is for Windows.
> >
> >So, you're saying windows doesn't run two or more programs well?
> >Hmm...lets see what I'm running now:
>
>
> I'm streaming 48 digital audio tracks through 4 effects busses (highly
> FPU dependent, using FFT) and mixing down automatically while I am
> typing this.
>
> Oh yea I am using Windows 98 SE.
>
> Linux chokes just running StarOffice and trying to print on the same
> exact system. Mouse trails, jerky mouse pointer and so forth.
>
>
You're right. There are some things that GNU/Linux chokes on. The same is
true about Windows. The difference is that with Windows, either the OS or
the application ends up crashes or get mutilated beyond all recognition.
With GNU/Linux, I usually get astounded that if you leave the app along and
quit trying to kill it or close, the app will still finish what it was doing
eventually and give control back to the user.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux
From: David E. Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:01:19 -0700
In article <8hopff$s2r$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>And to stir the pot a little more: Try to setup a fileserver
to offer its
>fileset and printers to unix, Dos, Windows, and MacOs clients,
each with
>their native fileshareing and printersharing protocols for a
total of 250
>users. Ok, Dos does not have a native protocol, but Novell
NetWare via
>IPX/SPX networking is the an almost defacto native for Dos.
How would you
>do that under Windows? How much would it cost? Is it even
possible? For
>Linux it is possible and the cost of the software is free no
matter how many
>users it is set up for.
>
It is certainly possible under Windows or Novell or any
commercial Unix that I'm aware of. It is not free. The
addtional cost of licensing may or may not be an appropriate
deciding factor in any specific network situation. But it is
only one factor among many that should be considered. It is a
bit of a mis-characterization to say the Linux is free because
some resources need to be spent designing, installing,
configuring and maintainting the network. These total costs may
be a great deal less for Linux in some situations, in others
they can be a great deal more.
>That is the difference between free and commercial software.
>
This is a far too simplistic analysis of the situation.
David E. Thomas
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
------------------------------
From: nohow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:11:09 -0700
On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:05:18 -0400, Jack Troughton
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bob Germer wrote:
>>
>> On 06/07/2000 at 03:43 PM,
>> Jack Troughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>
[snip]
>> > > There are far more Asians living in Vancouver, BC than Francophones.
>> > > Street signs there are in English and French. How is that fair to the
>> > > Asians?
>>
>> > No they're not... they're in English. Where did you hear that from?
>>
>> I saw the signs to the major E-W highway listing nord, sud, est, ouest. I
>> saw the signs for exits in both languages, services in both languages,
>> while driving from Vancouver to Calgary in 1995.
>
>Sure you did. I'd refer you to another post in this thread from Alan
>Baker, a Vancouverite. You are talking bullshit about which you know
>nothing again, Bob.
>
If memory serves me correctly I pretty sure that, even in the west,
along the trans-Canada there are some bilingual signs. The use of
french is virtually non-existent in Vancouver.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Bob's Law
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 20:08:10 GMT
Mayor writes:
>> Jeff Glatt writes:
>>>> Mayor writes:
>>>>>> Bob Lyday writes:
>>>>>>> Bob's Law invoked. Tholen mentioned. Thread is now
>>>>>>> officially dead.
>>>>>> Illogical.
>>>>> Since when has logic had anything to do with Usenet?
>>>> Since I started posting.
>>> The University of Hawaii has had to reprimand you for
>>> violation of their abuse policy since you started
>>> posting too
>> Prove it, if you think you can, Glatt.
> What Glatt can prove is irrelevant.
On the contrary, it is quite relevant to his accusation.
>> I suppose borg.com would be interested to learn that you're
>> still at it.
> What borg.com would be interested to learn is irrelevant as well.
On the contrary, it is quite relevant to his accusation.
> What Glatt is still at is only relevant if it involves underage
> girls.
Incorrect, given that borg.com's policy extends beyond that.
> Since that is unlikely, Glatt being Glatt after all, I
> move that Glatt be found guilty and we recess for lunch. After
> lunch we can reconvene and move on to the sentencing phase. All
> in favor signify by saying, "I burn tires on Earth Day".
Illogical.
------------------------------
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