Linux-Advocacy Digest #33, Volume #27 Mon, 12 Jun 00 00:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Chris Pott)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (TholenBotPro)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (TholenBotPro)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (TholenBotPro)
Re: Linux & Winmodem (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Sony PCV-L620 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Joe Ragosta)
Re: vote on MS split-up ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul E. Larson))
Re: Hummer / Station wagon parallel (Phil Burton)
Re: No need to take sides ("Otto")
Re: Linux faster than Windows? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: No need to take sides ("Otto")
Re: Open Source Programmers Demonstrate Incompetence (pie@nowhere)
Re: MacOS X: under the hood... (was Re: There is only one innovation that
matters...) ("Piers Bray")
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Marty)
Re: Hummer / Station wagon parallel (David Grogan)
Linux/Win logos -- can I use them? ("Barry Kauler")
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (TholenBotPro)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Marty)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chris Pott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:42:59 -0700
In article <EEF05.32601$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Chris Pott writes:
>
> >>>>> I'm not falling into another tholenesque spiral this week,
>
> >>>> What alleged "tholenesque spiral"?
>
> >>> The tholenesque spiral in which we find ourselves at this very moment.
>
> >> Incorrect; that would be a "tinmanesque" spiral, given that you
> >> started it.
>
> > Irrelevant, given that the characteristics of said spiral are not
> > dependent on whom initiated it.
>
> Illogical, given that the said spiral was given a name.
Incorrect, given that the name is based on the characteristics of said
spiral, rather than its instigator.
> > (Yes, I'm jumping into discussions again.)
>
> Why?
Don't you know?
--
Chris Pott
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: TholenBotPro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:57:12 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> See tinman, Tholen knows how your handle name should be presented better
> than you do. You really wanted to be known as Tinman, not tinman.
Jumping into discussions again, Marty?
> Can't argue with "logic" like that.
Incorrect.
> You believe the ego of this guy?
What you believe is irrelevant. What you can prove is relevant.
--
"You're erroneously presuming that I'm being pedantic."
-- Dave Tholen
------------------------------
From: TholenBotPro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:53:29 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
tholenbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I see that, having found it hot "out there", you have taken over the
> tending of Chris Pott's balderdash garden. How predictable.
What alleged "balderdash garden"?
--
"You're erroneously presuming that I'm being pedantic."
-- Dave Tholen
------------------------------
From: TholenBotPro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:54:40 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
tholenbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ask Chris Pott, it's his balderdash garden.
Typical incorrect illogic, laced with invective. How predictable,
coming from you.
--
"You're erroneously presuming that I'm being pedantic."
-- Dave Tholen
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux & Winmodem
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 02:14:33 GMT
In article <8hp4k7$la6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi all
>
> A quick question: I'm thinking of trying
> out Linux (probably SuSE), but
> I have a US Robotics Winmodem.
I'm not sure if US Robotics is, but many of the Lucent Technologies
based "Win"Modems are now supported by Linux.
The good news, you don't have to buy a new modem.
The bad news, performance on both Linux and Windows NT
gets really slow if you try to put too much traffic on the modem.
> I know it is incompatible, but is it
> still worthwhile running a dual Windows (for internet) and Linux
> system - or does that kind of miss the point?
I do this all the time. I run windows on either an NTFS partition
or a Fat32 partition and Linux on an e2fs partition and create a large
FAT partition that can be used to pass information from NT to 95 and
Linux.
I've been using Linux pretty regularly, but I still need to switch
to Windows (reluctantly) to access certain applications.
> Any advice gratefully received.
Before you write off using Linux for internet, see if you have
the drivers you are looking for in one of the archives. Once
upon a time, Linux had absolutely no winmodem support, now several
modem makers have leaked out enough information (lucent chips)
to provide winmodem support.
Modem makers have been discovering that Winmodems aren't doing
very well. The OEMs install Winmodems when the integrate the
components, but users are snapping up real-modems at computer shows
and other sources. Linux users are very resourceful and tend to have
no difficulty finding low-cost avenues.
Unfortunately, although Winmodems are popular with Win 95 and Win95
users, even when NT and Win2k support is available, users aren't
willing to accept the performance hit.
--
Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
I/T Architect, MIS Director
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 90 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Sony PCV-L620
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 02:10:18 GMT
Hi,
I have been debating for a while, if I should buy the Sony Slimtop, PCV-
L620, is there anyone out there, who has successfully installed RH
Linux on this model ? And, were there any hardware
conflict/incompatibility issues. The expenditure for this system is
quite astronomical, and I'd really appreciate if anyone could clarify
my doubts, more so because, I am buying this system, simply to work on
Linux, and nothing else.
Thanks in advance,
And,... btw, please send a Cc to [EMAIL PROTECTED] when replying.
Regards,
Nataraj.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Joe Ragosta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 02:22:50 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
bobh{at}haucks{dot}org wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:55:24 GMT, Daniel Johnson
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Yet *still* the open source folks can't seem to handle the Word format.
>
> Actually, the closed source folks haven't done all that well either.
> Most commercial WP's read Word files, most also lose information in the
> process. And if you start embedding things, well, that sure doesn't
> make the import work any better.
>
> >
> >I really don't think it's Microsoft's fault.
> >
> >Maybe the format it just too hard. Heaven knows it is complex.
>
> It could also be that the documentation is incomplete or incorrect. Or
> perhaps the format is closely tied to the internal architecture of
> Word or Windows, neither of which are available for inspection by third
> party implementors of Word file-readers. I haven't read the documents
> MS provides, so I have no idea how useful they are. The fact that
> nobody seems to have got it 100% right argues in favor of it being
> Microsoft's fault, although it doesn't prove such.
Actually, MacLink Plus tranlators have always done a pretty good job.
--
Regards,
Joe Ragosta
Get $10 free -- no strings attached. Just sign up.
https://secure.paypal.com/auction/pal=jragosta%40earthlink.net
Or get paid to browse the web:
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=KJS595
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
From: whistler@<blahblah>twcny.rr.com (Paul E. Larson)
Subject: Re: vote on MS split-up
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 02:36:27 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "David .." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>David Steuber wrote:
>>
>> Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> ' ... only becasue the governemnt was able to M$ into court, and the
>> ' resulting very real legal threat to M$'s continued existence .
>>
>> Yeah, Big Brother is watching out for you. Trust Big Brother. He
>> knows what's best for you and can solve all your problems and give you
>> everything you need.
>>
>> Give the FSF and other open source groups and people some credit, why
>> don'tchya?
>
>It wasn't the DOJ that started MS's Problems.
True, it was all those weak willed individuals that were unwilling to support
small vendors who installed Linux.
Paul
------------------------------
From: Phil Burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Hummer / Station wagon parallel
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 02:46:41 GMT
You are referring to "In the Beginning Was the
Command Line" by Neal Stephenson, which can be
read online at:
http://www.artlung.com/smorgasborg/C_R_Y_P_T_O_N_O_M_I_C_O_N.html
p/b
On Sun, 11 Jun 2000, David Grogan wrote:
& A while ago I read an article/essay paralleling the OS situation with a
& place to get cars where linux was like a hummer that you could work on
& yourself and windows was a station wagon with the hood welded shut. But
& now, for the life of me, I cannot find it. Anyone got the URL? Thanks
& a lot...
&
& David
&
&
------------------------------
From: "Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: No need to take sides
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 02:47:39 GMT
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: Otto wrote:
: >
: > "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: > : Otto wrote:
: > : >
: > : > "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: > : > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: > : > : Matt Chiglinsky wrote:
: > : > : >
: > : > : > It's only a computer.
: > : > : >
: > : > : > That's all I have to say.
: > : > :
: > : > : That depends. On COLA, whose existence is for the taking of sides
for
: > : > : Linux, it make sense. Advocating a community developed product,
which
: > is
: > : > : free, makes sense. Advocating a poorly developed, closed source,
: > : > : proprietary set of (and I use this term loosely) operating
systems,
: > from
: > : > : the largest software company in the world, with billions for
: >
: > In certain respect you are right, most of the things what you listed are
: > more complicated than just a whatever device. However, for most people
it
: > makes no difference what actually happens, when they pickup the phone to
: > make a phone call. Nor should they be concerned about it, unless they
work
: > for the phone company. For that matter, computers are handled the same
way.
: > Success of a product seldom depends on the actual quality of the product
in
: > question. It depends on usability, price, ease of access to the product,
: > pretty much in that order. Anybody, who can provide a product which is
: > easier to use, cheaper, and accessible by the masses, than the someone's
: > existing product, will be successful. Right or wrong, this is the
generic
: > sentiment of the masses.
: > Anyone who thinks otherwise is either ignorant or kidding themselves.
: >
: > Otto
:
: Which is why Linux will probably eventually exceed Windows in popularity
: among the masses, yet, at the same time, give the programmers and
: engineers the flexibility they want.
"Eventually"? When would that be? In its present state Linux is useless for
the masses and even the programmers rather opt for a different platform. In
two or three years Linux might be a worthy alternative to Windows, until
then you are kidding yourself.
Otto
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Linux faster than Windows?
Date: 11 Jun 2000 21:56:33 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert) wrote in <960739512.375557603@news-
>server.mmcable.com>:
>
>>HA! That's where I get Linux is 200% faster.
>>
>>Try it!
>
>That's interesting...
>
>It strikes me as odd that in my own limited testing I am not seeing a 200%
>speed increase on Linux. I would have thought ANY testing, be it simplistic
>or complex would show SOME kind of speed increase if Linux was 200% faster.
>
>However it does not.
How many other processes are you running on the Linux box while
you are testing? (Try 'ps ax |wc -l' for a count). There is
not much an OS can do to speed up the CPU for a single CPU
bound task, and any OS should be able to run a single disk
drive or network card at its hardware limits. For a test
of what the OS does, you need to compare the things it actually
handles, like scheduling multiple tasks, multiple disk queues,
etc.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Otto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: No need to take sides
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 03:11:28 GMT
"JEDIDIAH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: On Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:13:26 +0100, Robert Moir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: >
: >"Matt Templeton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
: >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
: >> Matt Chiglinsky wrote:
: >>
: >> > It's only a computer.
: >> >
: >> > That's all I have to say.
: >>
: >> You're right, it is only a computer. But I want _MY_ computer to do
what
: >> _I_ want the way _I_ want it to. I can do this with Linux but NOT with
: >> MS software,.
: >
: >Then go ahead and do it, and stop missing his point...
:
: His point is inane.
:
: We are forced on a daily basis to content with a vast array
: of product either as an element of our work or as an element
: of our recreation. Being forced to use SHIT that we would not
: otherwise put up with is actually quite relevant to one's
: life.
Forced might be a little too strong of a word. Man in black theory again?
:
: Sometimes, it can even be quite relevant to your safety either
: physically or merely your livelihood and standard of living.
How so?
:
: Computers and data processing are so far entrenched into Western
: Society that merely calling it "just a computer" is absurd in the
: extreme and seems to rather strongly imply that the cluebie making
: the comment already "has theirs" and just doesn't give a damn
: whether or not the rest of the universe is getting screwed over in
: some fashion or another.
For the same reason, computers are far entrenched into the Western Society,
it is called "just a computer". There is no emotion attached to a collection
of printed circuit boards. It is just a device with a certain capabilities
expected from it. If it does not provide what is expected, then it's called
junk. The same goes for OS, if there is no instant gratification then the OS
is useless.
The rest of the universe is getting screwed over some fashion or another on
their own just fine, although you are right. The Western Society doesn't
care if their actions help this process one way or another. At least they
don't need sane PPP documents....
Otto
------------------------------
From: pie@nowhere
Subject: Re: Open Source Programmers Demonstrate Incompetence
Date: 11 Jun 2000 19:24:40 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>But you don't know the design goal of the program. If the main design goal
>was portability,
Why do not you guys just use Java and be done with it?
All this stupid talk about this might be portable and that might not,
is a waste of time. C sucks and so does C++.
Use Java. Be smart. Who cares about C any more.
------------------------------
From: "Piers Bray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.be.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: MacOS X: under the hood... (was Re: There is only one innovation that
matters...)
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:17:53 +1000
Ahhh, good old Lilo (-:
If you have your Linux disk I believe you can uninstall Lilo from the Linux
installation.
In BeOS you should through the Terminal be able to activate Bootman but
typing its' name at the prompt. Follow the instructions and choose what you
wish to boot into and how long you want the boot menu displayed for. I use
Win2K as primary boot and BeOS as secondary with a 5 second wait on the boot
menu.
Failing that boot from a floppy into Dos and use "sys mbr" to repair the
Master Boot Record to DOS specific then try the above step.
Piers B.
Try also looking at www.betips.net for solutions to this and other BeOS
specific solutions.
"Patrick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:xXE05.5022$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I tried Linux before BeOS and I didn't care for it. I really like BeOS.
How
> do I remove LILO and replace with Bootman?
>
> Patrick
>
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 03:22:06 GMT
Chris Bott wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
> > See tinman, Tholen knows how your handle name should be presented better
> > than you do. You really wanted to be known as Tinman, not tinman.
>
> Jumping into discussions again, Marty?
Don't you know?
> > Can't argue with "logic" like that.
>
> Incorrect.
See what I mean?
> > You believe the ego of this guy?
>
> What you believe is irrelevant.
Non sequitur, as I have made no mention about what I believe.
> What you can prove is relevant.
Prove it, if you think you can.
> --
> "You're erroneously presuming that I'm being pedantic."
> -- Dave Tholen
Not at all, Chris.
------------------------------
From: David Grogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Hummer / Station wagon parallel
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 23:35:50 -0400
Yeah! Thanks a lot.
Phil Burton wrote:
> You are referring to "In the Beginning Was the
> Command Line" by Neal Stephenson, which can be
> read online at:
>
> http://www.artlung.com/smorgasborg/C_R_Y_P_T_O_N_O_M_I_C_O_N.html
>
> p/b
>
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2000, David Grogan wrote:
>
> & A while ago I read an article/essay paralleling the OS situation with a
> & place to get cars where linux was like a hummer that you could work on
> & yourself and windows was a station wagon with the hood welded shut. But
> & now, for the life of me, I cannot find it. Anyone got the URL? Thanks
> & a lot...
> &
> & David
> &
> &
------------------------------
From: "Barry Kauler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux/Win logos -- can I use them?
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:37:17 +0800
Is there anyone reading this who has some knowledge of the
legal situation with logos?
I'm writing a book "Linux and me", online at
http://www.crosswinds.net/~goosee/
and I want to insert various logos.
Firstly, the MS Windows logo -- you know the one that looks
like a waving flag.
Ok, you might think that's a trademark of MS, *but* it is also
a character in the WingDings font, so if I legally own Windows
then I should be able to legally use that character.
Then, if I paste that character into a paint program and save it
as a .gif image, am I still allowed to use it???
I am not going to bother with asking MS for permission, as my
book really puts the knife in in places. But, can I freely use that
WingDings character, saved as a bitmap?
Then there's the logos associated with the various Linux distributors.
I looked at the Red Hat legal page, and it's quite heavy, you must
not use our "red hat" logo!!! Written permission is required.
Ok, I can apply to the various distributors, but if I don't want to
bother, can I use "modified" or "alternative" logos?
Does anyone know of any "alternative" logos?
Regards,
Barry Kauler
------------------------------
From: TholenBotPro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:46:00 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chris Bott wrote:
Typical invective.
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > > See tinman, Tholen knows how your handle name should be presented better
> > > than you do. You really wanted to be known as Tinman, not tinman.
> >
> > Jumping into discussions again, Marty?
>
> Don't you know?
Irrelevant. Meanwhile, you have predictably failed to answer the question.
> > > Can't argue with "logic" like that.
> >
> > Incorrect.
>
> See what I mean?
Non sequitur.
> > > You believe the ego of this guy?
> >
> > What you believe is irrelevant.
>
> Non sequitur, as I have made no mention about what I believe.
Irrelevant.
> > What you can prove is relevant.
>
> Prove it, if you think you can.
How ironic.
> > --
> > "You're erroneously presuming that I'm being pedantic."
> > -- Dave Tholen
>
> Not at all, Chris
More evidence of your lack of reading comprehension skills.
--
"You're erroneously presuming that I'm being pedantic."
-- Dave Tholen
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 03:55:11 GMT
chris probot wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Chris Bott wrote:
>
> Typical invective.
Incorrect.
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > See tinman, Tholen knows how your handle name should be presented better
> > > > than you do. You really wanted to be known as Tinman, not tinman.
> > >
> > > Jumping into discussions again, Marty?
> >
> > Don't you know?
>
> Irrelevant.
On the contrary, it's quite relevant to tinman's entertainment.
> Meanwhile, you have predictably failed to answer the question.
Incorrect. Meanwhile you have failed to locate my answer to your question.
How typical.
> > > > Can't argue with "logic" like that.
> > >
> > > Incorrect.
> >
> > See what I mean?
>
> Non sequitur.
See what I mean?
> > > > You believe the ego of this guy?
> > >
> > > What you believe is irrelevant.
> >
> > Non sequitur, as I have made no mention about what I believe.
>
> Irrelevant.
Glad you agree.
> > > What you can prove is relevant.
> >
> > Prove it, if you think you can.
>
> How ironic.
See what I mean?
> > > --
> > > "You're erroneously presuming that I'm being pedantic."
> > > -- Dave Tholen
> >
> > Not at all, Chris
>
> More evidence of your lack of reading comprehension skills.
Not at all, Chris.
> --
> "You're erroneously presuming that I'm being pedantic."
> -- Dave Tholen
See above.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
