Linux-Advocacy Digest #41, Volume #27 Mon, 12 Jun 00 16:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Please Help on my Final Year Project ("Alex DeLarge")
Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Boring ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: No need to take sides ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: W2K BSOD's documented *not* to be hardware (Was: lack of goals. (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: vote on MS split-up ("David ..")
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers ("Jimmie")
Re: 3 OS's on one machine win98-win2k-linux (Jim Richardson)
Re: Mac = Playstation? Unix useless?(was Re: Canada invites Microsoft north)
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Core dump with java 2 runtime and CLASSPATH ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Open Source Programmers Demonstrate Incompetence (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux faster than Windows? (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux faster than Windows? (Craig Kelley)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451708 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Boring (Steve Mentzer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Alex DeLarge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: Please Help on my Final Year Project
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:21:32 +0100
Guven Linux can use the 2.4.0 test kernel quite happily. Check out the kodak
digicam howto at linuxdoc (www.linuxdoc.org) for details on setting up usb
on linux. Getting it to work in a very small amount of space might pose a
problem because of the kernel, and any libraries you might need. If you need
a hand with the embedded system, feel free to e-mail me.
--
Alex DeLarge: DeLarge and in charge - remove the anti-spam stuff from my
e-mail address before replying
Check out http://www.bristol2600.org.uk for all your Bristol 2600 meet
needs.
First friday each month!
Guven Linux at 0.01rc5
Alan Po <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ht5sk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Dear All
>
> I am a University Student in Hong Kong. I have choosen to develop an
> Embedded Linux Environment for Industrial as my Final Year Project. My
> Lecturer suggest me that my first step is to use a linux to control a Web
> Camera first. However, in Hong Kong, almost all Web Camera only support
USB
> (Windows 98 or iMac). In my plan, I also find that if the USB Hardware
> Interface may be more useful and meaningful because USB is PnP and it is
> easy to find in the market (also the industrial). However, as I know,
Linux
> does not support USB.
>
> Can anyone tell any USB development plan on Linux? Where can I get more
> solutions or hints on USB for Linux? Thanks and welcome for any help and
> suggestion on my project. Thanks a lot.
>
> Alan Po
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes
Date: 12 Jun 2000 13:35:36 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>David wrote:
>>
>> "Lawrence DčOliveiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > Which is the best system for dealing with filesystem volumes?
>> >
>> > a) Drive letters (all versions of Windows OT and NT, including Windows
>> > 2000).
>> > Pros: You got to be kidding.
>> > Cons: They reaassign themselves at the slightest excuse; add a new
>> > drive, and all bets are off as to which of your existing drive letter
>> > assignments will stay the same.
>> > Verdict: Stupid 1970s way of doing things that should be ashamed to be
>> > still showing itself in the 21st century.
>> >
>> > b) Mount points (all UNIXes and Linsux).
>>
>> Windows 2000 supports mount points.
>
>See? windows is slowly and painfully becoming UNIX. What next?
Symlinks, without a command to create them.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Boring
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:52:43 -0500
Jorge Cueto wrote:
> This newsgroup is starting to be bored ... I guess GNU/Linux has finally
> won and Windows advocates can't just debate anymore :-)
I agree. Advocacy is fun, and debating is fun, but seeing the Troll With 1000
Names post the same old thing over and over again is B-O-R-I-N-G.
I wish The Register allowed talkbacks.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: No need to take sides
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:57:48 -0500
mlw wrote:
> > Life goes on without a computer. Or so I've heard.
>
> Yes it does, but as computers increasingly become more important as
> infrastructure and a way for individuals to participate in a free
> society, these issues MUST be addressed. You don't have to take it
> seriously, but don't kid yourself that it is not important.
Imagine, for instance, what it would be like if some individual owned all the
streets and sidewalks in your town, and decided to charge you a toll ... or maybe
refuse you access altogether, if you didn't buy your tires at his tire store and
your shoes at his shoe store. Of course, he would only sell you his fine tires
if you bought your wheels at his hot rod shop, and only sell you his fine shoes
if you bought your socks at his fine department store. And so on. It could "get
medieval on you" real quick.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: W2K BSOD's documented *not* to be hardware (Was: lack of goals.
Date: 12 Jun 2000 14:05:50 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]%-U>,
Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Oh, you mean shit like:
>
> finger -s $(cat /etc/passwd|awk -F: '{ print $1 }')
You forgot to misspeel cat. And by the way, awk can read
files without cat's help.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "David .." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: vote on MS split-up
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:01:22 -0500
Rick wrote:
>
> "David .." wrote:
> >
> > It wasn't the DOJ that started MS's Problems.
> > Enough said.
> >
>
> Then who was it? And why has M$'s marketshare problems just happent to
> coincide with the lates antitrust action?
Don't remember which one actually was the first but I think it was one
of the two Sun or Netscape that started the ball rolling, so to speak.
--
Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
ID # 123538
------------------------------
From: "Jimmie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:13:15 -0700
you mean apparently?
--
=====================================================
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8h1cu8$2ch4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Jeff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Linux training is now offered free of charge at a local community
collage.
>
> Apparantly spelling isnt.
>
>
>
>
> -----yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: 3 OS's on one machine win98-win2k-linux
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:32:53 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 12 Jun 2000 06:19:22 -0500,
Tim Palmer, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>
>>> ... the problem is, since FIPS changed the MBR, windows2000
>>> freaked out, and didn't know where to find it's root directory, so win98
>>> boots up fine, but when I try to load win2k I get the message
>>> "ntoskrnl.exe could not be found in the following directory
>>> <windows2000root>\system32\ntoskrnl.exe please verify the file is not
>>> missing or corrupt and replace"
>>
>>A little advocacy ... linux would never have this problem because
>>of the enormous flexibility the boot loader gives you. The "/"
>>changed? no problem. Just type
>
>>
>>LILO: linux root=/dev/hda(blah)
>
>Did you even rede the artical? Linux IS having this prolblem. Linux
>is screuing up Win2000. LILO has nothing to do with it. LILO ca'nt
>boot windows 2K and you calnt boot Linux without LILO!
>
Don't be silly! Of course you can boot linux without lilo, there are
many options, frankly, listing them all would be too time consuming.
But you can use Grub, a graphical bootloader, you can use system commander,
or the OS2 bootloader, or use loadllin.
Really Tim, you need to learn more about linux before you post, or you
will continue to make these foolish claims.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac = Playstation? Unix useless?(was Re: Canada invites Microsoft north)
Date: 12 Jun 2000 19:25:06 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In <39437aad$2$obot$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>On 06/11/2000 at 05:58 AM,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) said:
>
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) said:
>> >> I dont run windows by the way, or OS2. In case you thought you were
>> >> getting my goat or something. :)
>
>> >Then there are only 2 possibilities. You are running a MAC which is
>> >nothing more than a glorified Playstation or you are running some form of
>> >unix which makes your machine virtually useless for 99.98% of business
>> >customers.
>
>> How is a Macintosh a glorified Playstation? That's pure idiocy.
>> Compared to a Playstation, a Macintosh is essentially a rather weird
>> flavor of PeeCee.
>
>Since a Mac cannot open the very large spreadsheets common found on our
>clients' machines and since there is nothing coming even close to the
>capabilities of DB2 for the Mac and since it cannot run the custom billing
>and timekeeping software some of our clients have be very happily using
>for up to 17 years, it cannot be classified as a full fledged computer. A
>Playstation is almost as good at running games as the best Macs costing 10
>times as much. Thus the Mac is nothing more than a glorified Playstation.
>
This is such a silly argument, I'm still laughing. I'm no MAC lover by any stretch.
but to say that just because a mac won't run some nonsense you happen to need
makes in NOT a computer, is like saying.. Well you're a bad driver so your car really
isn't a car. and the playstation2 runs a hell of a lot more polygons than mac or
windoze
Also, the custom software that some has running on the mac won't run on your computers
so clearly you aren't using computers either. LOL... you're as funny as Timmy.
what a nonsense argument.
>> Unix? How is it useless? What do you think all those purchases of Unix
>> servers are made by?
>
>Unix is worthless to most businesses for client machines because they
>cannot run the software in which they have tens or hundreds of thousands
>of dollars invested. Most businessmen (other than mom and pop stores,
>offices, etc.) will not run other than commercially available software.
>The will not 'upgrade' just because some spoiled brat with more money than
>God says they should. They will not buy new computers just because Bill
>Gates says they must.
>
>Take a typical client of ours, a 40 workstation law firm in business for
>30 years or so. They first used Wang WordProcessors as a migration from
>typewriters. In 1988, we converted them to a Novell Network and
>WordPerfect when they had 24 workstations and a server. They purchased
>custom written billing/time keeping software written for DOS. They
>purchased sufficient licenses to run SEA's internal email software.
>
>
>Over the years we have added a second server, a dozen laser printers,
>about 16 work stations, and upgraded various hard drives, etc. After their
>fax machines began to break down due to overloads, they bit the bullet and
>installed V.34 internal modems and phone lines adequate to support them in
>most of the workstations. They were upgraded to Warp 3 around that time so
>that they could run Faxworks on all those workstations while still using
>WordPerfect and the billing/timekeeping software simultaneously, internal
>email, etc. and they bought DB/2 from IBM to replace what was still being
>done manually. They had also, at my recommendation, bought Bitstream's
>Facelift package to add fonts to their WordPerfect documents.
>
>They evaluated proposals from our competitors who were trying to convert
>them to Windows 3.11 for Workgroups. That would have required them to
>purchase 30 some site licenses for DOS 5, 30 some for Windows 3.11, and
>spend around $15,000 for billing/time keeping software since what they had
>would not run under Windows 3.11. They would also have had to spend money
>for new email software.
>
>The cost of DOS 5 +Win 3.11 was almost exactly comparable to Warp 3 on a
>per machine basis. It gave them all the capabilities that DOS+Win 3.11 did
>at a much lower cost. Their fonts were still available, their clerical
>employees had no retraining costs other than learning how to click on an
>icon rather than hitting a menu choice letter or number. All of their
>existing documents were still available without need for reformatting, all
>their employees saw no real change other than having a desktop with icons
>rather than a menu, etc. In other words the cost of the OS was the total
>cost.
>
>And not unlike several of our clients, they still run Warp 3 quite
>productively. It hasn't cost them a cent in software to become Y2K
>compliant. Fortunately, the billing software was written to be compliant
>and a free fixpack from IBM handled the OS including DOS. Moreover, they
>are running machines as workstations which would not even have sufficient
>disk space to load Windows 98. Their old 386's with 16 megs of memory
>still work just fine. They only upgrade when a machine fails for one
>reason or another. Even those old 386's are faster than the best typist in
>the world.
>
>According to MS and others, anything latest than the fastest machine with
>the biggest hard disk, a 17 inch monitor, etc. is obsolete. By that
>thinking, Ford would have to replace every piece of equipment in every one
>of its assembly plants every couple of years. As a matter of fact they
>don't and won't. And neither do most successful business persons replace
>their PC's every couple of years nor do they need to do so. --
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
>MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
OK I admit it... I'm still chuckling...
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Core dump with java 2 runtime and CLASSPATH
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:19:15 GMT
Hello,
I was wondering if you have any advice with a problem that I am having.
I just installed Java 2 Runtime onto my Linux RedHat 6.1. I wrote a
small java program, compiled it, and ran it. Everything worked fine. I
copied over some programs (previously compiled on a Windows machine)
and set the CLASSPATH environment variable. I first tried to set it on
the command line and I currently have it set in the .bashrc file in the
bash shell. The syntax of my variable looks like so:
export
CLASSPATH=.:/directory/directory/file.jar:/directory/directory/file.jar:
............ (all in one line)
So I tried to run a previously compiled program with a classpath
extention
java filename path1/path2/path3
I got a core dump with a segmentation fault.
Now when I try to run a previously compiled program in the local
directory with the command:
java filename
I get a core dump with a segmentation fault.
Do you have any suggestions or advice?
Thanks in advance,
Jeannie
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Open Source Programmers Demonstrate Incompetence
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 12 Jun 2000 13:36:37 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> As most computer professionals know, "open source" software has a
> reputation for being extremely unreliable, buggy, and prone to constant
> failure. Of course, since the source code is available, one need only
> look at it to see how devastatingly bad it is. Sourceforge has a
> service where programmers are allowed to share their work with others.
> One such contribution is the following, which allows an fgets-like
> function to read from a file descriptor:
[snip blah blah blah blah blah]
Where is your proof that every closed-source project is better?
This is more symptomatic of the C-family languages being awful than
anything else.
It's 2000, and we're still writing most of our software in a language
that can't even garbage collect, which uses libraries which may or may
not cache, depending on the original coder's architecture's
limitations.
Insane.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux faster than Windows?
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 12 Jun 2000 13:46:36 -0600
Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
>
> > What I actually meant was _writing_ the mailbox file. If you are using
> > Pine or ELM (the two standard Unix mailers), and you delete a message from
> > a large mailbox, the system has to rewrite the whole mailbox to cover
> > this, since Unix does not support indexed files. This is dog slow.
>
> You are so full of it.. I just opened my bugtraq folder again using pine
> on my U2. It had 1916msgs (10676115 byte file size).. deleted a message
> and expunged it. The open process took a whole 2 seconds, and the
> deletion took a whole 3 seconds!
Terry is correct; the mbox format is horrible. It not only requires
the agent to re-write the entire file, it uses a single lock for the
whole file and uses
From
as a delimiter between messages.
Terry is incorrect, of course, in his assertion that UNIX doesn't
support indexed files (records). There are several libraries which do
this, that are source-compatible.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux faster than Windows?
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 12 Jun 2000 13:49:51 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >> The action of "deleting" it --- no time at all (all it does is to mark it
> >> as deleted in memory). Writing it back will take quite some time, but then
> >> again, that's *why* you don't actually have to do that. Every now and
> >> again, I "resynchronize" my mailbox (i.e. make it write it back), usually
> >> just before I go to bed --- so why would I care how long it takes.
>
> I have many not so fond memories of being at a public terminal, needing to
> log out to get to class, but being stuck waiting or ELM to exit because
> it takes so long to write the mailbox back. Unless you only read mail on
> your own computer, the slowness of deleting a message is most definitely
> very relevant.
Not that you had much control over the system you were using
(probably), but Qmail does not use the awful mbox format; opting
instead for a much more intelligent, indexed format.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:55:08 GMT
Chris Pott writes:
>>>>>>>>> I'm not falling into another tholenesque spiral this week,
>>>>>>>> What alleged "tholenesque spiral"?
>>>>>>> The tholenesque spiral in which we find ourselves at this very moment.
>>>>>> Incorrect; that would be a "tinmanesque" spiral, given that you
>>>>>> started it.
>>>>> Irrelevant, given that the characteristics of said spiral are not
>>>>> dependent on whom initiated it.
>>>> Illogical, given that the said spiral was given a name.
>>> Incorrect,
>> Balderdash.
> I see that lacking a logical response,
Did you bother to read my response, Chris?
> you're resorting to Tholenesque context butchering again.
What alleged "context butchering", Chris?
> How typical.
Typical pontification on your part.
>>> given that the name is based on the characteristics of said
>>> spiral, rather than its instigator.
Why did you delete my response to the above, Chris? Resorting to
context butchering? How ironic.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Malloy digest, volume 2451708
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:57:15 GMT
Ed writes:
> For $DEITY's sake, stop `digesting' each other and advocate something
> useful!
I've been advocating the use of the right tool for the job for some
time. Apparently Malloy doesn't like that, hence his presence here.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mentzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Boring
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:05:31 -0700
>
> This newsgroup is starting to be bored ... I guess GNU/Linux has finally
>won and Windows advocates can't just debate anymore :-)
>
>
Nobody won...
I am both a windows AND linux user. I feel that both OS's do things
better than the other.
Unfortunately, loyalty to one platform tends to skew the eyesight of
an advocate, regardless of facts or common knowledge.
Trying to explain some cool features in Win2k to the linux advocates
usually results in the typical BSOD, security, or MSBloatWare
argument.
Trying to explain to windows advocates about how stable and advanced
the core OS is compared to NT will result in the spammers complaining
about driver support, poor GUI functionality and pain-in-the-butt
setup woes..
It is a no-win situation. Both OS's are great (and excel in certain
scenarios), but neither side is ready to admit it.
I will wind up getting flamed for this post, even though I readily
tout the strengths of linux. I will never understand it :)
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
