Linux-Advocacy Digest #268, Volume #27 Fri, 23 Jun 00 01:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh (Loren Petrich)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (Loren Petrich)
Re: High School is out...here come the trolls...who can't accept the future.
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: (Curt Howland)
Re: Thinking of reading anything by simon777 ? Read this first before you do .......
(Terry Porter)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (Charles Philip Chan)
Re: Stupid idiots that think KDE is a Window Manager (Charles Philip Chan)
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (Charles Philip Chan)
Re: It's all about the microsurfs (Charles Philip Chan)
Re: X can't be that slow (Charles Philip Chan)
Re: Linux internal books (Charles Philip Chan)
Re: Windows, Easy to Use? (Charles Philip Chan)
Re: Thinking of reading anything by simon777 ? Read this first before you do .......
(Terry Porter)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: (Aaron Kulkis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 23 Jun 2000 04:04:20 GMT
In article <8itvgc$29d2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Henry Blaskowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In talk.politics.libertarian Mark S. Bilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Reason magazine's website says they get
>> half their income from private donors whose identities they
>> keep secret.
>That's so psychos like you won't stalk them :-)
Or more likely because they have something to hide.
>> The *actual result* of this maldistribution of wealth is
>> starvation, sickness, and death for many poor people under
>> Capitalism.
>Yes, I know some of you would prefer to see the equal distribution
>of poverty that occurs in countries that try to create a uniform
>society, but in the US we think that is sick and cruel.
Are the *only* legitimate choices 99% of all people poor and
miserable and 100% of all people poor and miserable?
>> Mark K, I don't mean to attack you personally, especially
>> seeing as you're posting from Poland. But in Russia they
>> are finding that unregulated Capitalism is worse for people
>> economically than Communism. Both of these systems are
>> coercive and cruel. Social Democracy is much better.
>You know nothing about Russia, apparently. Capitalism requires
>Rule of Law, and Russia does not have it. They have mob violence.
>Don't pretend the two are the same. You'll just look silly
>and uninformed.
"Rule of law" is simply government regulation under some other name.
As Bertrand Russell has pointed out, it's possible to have
government without law, but it is not possible to have law without
government. And as he had pointed out, the creators of the League of
Nations and the Kellogg-Briand Treaty had forgotten that.
The Kellogg-Briand Treaty was a treaty outlawing war, to be
enforced by outraged public opinion. However, there are ways of getting
public opinion on the side of wars of conquest, such as claiming that
those wars were provoked. Thus, the Nazis claimed that it was Poland that
had attacked Germany first.
--
Loren Petrich Happiness is a fast Macintosh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] And a fast train
My home page: http://www.petrich.com/home.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: 23 Jun 2000 04:06:42 GMT
In article <8iuk6v$2t4u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Henry Blaskowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In talk.politics.libertarian Joseph T. Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I will concede that many other large corporations in the U.S. as well
>> as the government itself practice fraud with impunity; however, the
>> wrongful actions of one entity do not justify those of another.
>So do you think that business in the US should just be shut down,
>destroying the economy? Because that is the result of a fair
>implementation of the policy that is being used to harass MS.
There is no need for such extreme approaches, and you know it,
Mr. Blaskowski.
--
Loren Petrich Happiness is a fast Macintosh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] And a fast train
My home page: http://www.petrich.com/home.html
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: High School is out...here come the trolls...who can't accept the future.
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:05:08 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Here are some more data from the same source:
Percent of information technology managers using or planning to use Linux
as a server based operating system.
Current: %
Currently Use 24%
Plan to Use Within 12 Months 48%
No Plans 24%
Don't Know 4%
Percent of information technology managers replacing or planning to replace
their operating system with Linux, by operating system.
Current: %
Windows NT 50%
Windows 95 24%
Unix Servers 22%
Unix Desktops 18%
Windows 98 16%
Novell NetWare 14%
Macintosh 6%
Apache 2%
Other 26%
>From the "I don't know if I show laugh or cry or just be shocked department"
I figured I would make a browser counter vote for Mosaic on Linux over at
the Microsoft website, while there I found this: Microsoft Freedom to
Innovate Network
=====cut line ======
About the Freedom to Innovate Network
We formed the Freedom to Innovate Network (FIN) as a response to the
overwhelming amount of correspondence we received from around the U.S. and
overseas regarding the trial with the Department of Justice and other public
policy issues. The FIN is a non-partisan, grassroots network of citizens and
businesses who have a stake in the success of Microsoft and the high-tech
industry. The FIN will help you stay up to date on critical developments in
public policy. Sign up for a free e-newsletter, tell us your thoughts, take
action and stay informed. It's how you can make a difference!
How to contact FIN:
Microsoft Freedom to Innovate Network
16625 Redmond Way
Ste, M-447
Redmond, WA
98052-9724
email at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.microsoft.com/freedomtoinnovate/default.htm
=====cut line ======
There was a whole tree of webpages for this non-partisian grass roots
organization, who do they think they are fooling and who do they think would
be stupid enough to join? I know there is supposed to be one born every
minute--But really!
This reminds me of a few years ago there was a movement to raise the tobaco
tax so the industry fought it by forming a "grass roots" organizations call
"Citizens Againts Unfrair Taxation" to serve as their shill.
Mark S. Bilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8irnuf$pvn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:57:01 -0400, PowerUser
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >>LINUX IS HERE TO STAY, AND AT THE RATE THAT IT IS GROWING/DEVELOPING,
> >>IT WILL BE THE MAJOR OS OF THE FUTURE.
> >
> >As long as .3 percent of total market share is what you are looking
> >for, I would say you are right on track.
>
> In the business world, Linux market share is probably 30% --
> one hundred times the .3% figure repeatedly posted by our
> resident liar, Steve/Mike/Simon (for which he never gives
> a reference).
>
> By going to this web page, and clicking on the free data
> link, one can access various industry surveys taken as late
> as one year ago -- 2Q99 (more recent ones cost a dollar a
> minute to access):
>
> http://www.infotechtrends.com/freedemo.htm
>
> Thanks to WhyteWolf for posting this one, which you get by
> checking the "web" box:
>
> 99Q2 - Percent of Web servers using each operating system.
>
> Percent of Web servers using each operating system.
>
> Windows NT 26%
> Linux 21%
> Solaris 16%
> BSDI 11%
> SGI (IRIX) 9%
> Free BSD 8%
>
> JOURNAL/SOURCE/TITLE DATE PAGE
> VARBUSINESS/ 12-Apr-99 58 Netcraft/
> *GENERATION LINUX - NIPPING NT's HEELS
>
> So, Linux had almost caught up to Windows NT in web server
> market share a year ago, and the most popular Unix systems
> combined exceeded NT's share by 2.5 to 1 (.65/.26).
>
> But if you instead check the boxes for "software" and
> "systems", you can get this report:
>
> 99Q2 - Percent of information technology managers using
> or planning to use Linux as a general purpose desktop
> or workstation operating system.
>
> Currently Use 10%
> Use Within 12 Months 20%
> No Plans 68%
> Don't Know 1%
>
> JOURNAL/SOURCE/TITLE DATE PAGE
> VARBUSINESS/ 12-Apr-99 54 InformationWeek/
> *GENERATION LINUX - NEXT STOP: DESKTOP
>
> One year ago, when KDE and Gnome, along with hardware and
> installation support, were much less developed than they
> are now, Linux was already in use on the desktop/workstation
> computers of 10% of all businesses. The figure may now
> be 30%, if the managers planning to switch to Linux have
> followed through.
>
> The next LinuxWorld Conference and Expo will be held
> August 14-17 2000, in San Jose, Calif. The last one was
> huge! See hundreds of companies and organizations with
> GNU/Linux/OSS related products. Meet Linus and RMS.
> Pet a real penguin! Register now for free admission to
> the exhibits, Aug. 15-17 (save $25).
>
> http://www.linuxworldexpo.com/
>
>
------------------------------
From: Curt Howland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 04:18:38 GMT
I am reminded of a recent article pointing out that IBM and Dell are
"cooperating" to sell pre-packaged Linux machines that come with
support.
Isn't that exactly what Microsoft was prosecuted for? Negotiating with
hardware vendors to pre-package their software?
Get real. The entire prosecution was contrived from the start. No one
was ever forced to use a Microsoft product, unlike the forced used to
support NASA for instance.
Curt-
Henry Blaskowski wrote:
>
> In talk.politics.libertarian Mark S. Bilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hmm ... you know, I don't recall any Ford dealer
> >> that sells new Chevys too. Could it be that MS
> >> was simply following a common business practice ?
>
> > These are computer *hardware* vendors being coerced, not
> > Microsoft Software stores.
>
> > That's illegal, and with good reason.
>
> What reason? What coercion? Being offered a discount is coercion?
> I'll remember that next time I'm at the grocery store.
--
"Wherever I go, everyone is a little bit safer because I am there.
Wherever I am, anyone in need has a friend.
Whenever I return home, everyone is happy I am there."
---The Warrior Creed, Robert L. Humphrey, USMC
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Thinking of reading anything by simon777 ? Read this first before you do
.......
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 23 Jun 2000 12:24:18 +0800
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:39:20 +0200, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Terry,
>
>You remind me of some of my geek friends - no offence.
I'll take that as a compliment then :)
> To me "effective"
>means that I can use an Desktop OS for :
>
>- Compiling & communicating business docs, presentations, etc.
I use Linux for this too.
>- Compiling business architectures, processes, structures, etc.
I use Linux for this too.
>- Managing projects.
Nope.
>- Managing resources (machines, people, money).
Yes I do this too.
>- Technical work (electronic/communication engineering).
Yes I do this too, but not communications, mostly industrial control, design
and manufacture, inc coding.
>- Fast generation of [small] custom db apps to manage resources (preferably
>thin clients). [This is probably an area where Linux excel).
I dont do this.
>
>I use "tinkerer" in a loose sense. There are many Linux advocates in this
>NG who don't have a clue about OS', yet they blow very hard.
BS, the blow hard and clueless are the Wintrolls.
>
>James
>
>"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:49:36 +0200, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > But this newsgroup will be very boring if everyone
>> >> >just praises Linux.
>> >> Why ?
>> >> Theres a lot to praise, unlike the OS *your* using right now.
>> >>
>> >I am using W2k Pro right now. Sometimes I use Mandrake 7.1. Admittedly
>> >only to tinker with.
>> It shows.
>>
>> > Prefer IE5/OE to Netscape 6 for Linux.
>> Me too.
>>
>> > The latter is
>> >functionally crappy and very slow - especially as a newsreader.
>> Ewwww, use SLRN, or if you must, Forte Agent.
>>
>> >
>> >W2k has many praises and is certainly miles ahead of any Linux distro -
>as
>> >an *effective* desktop.
>> Nonsense, you don't have a clue about the real meaning of "effective".
>>
>> You only know what youve been told,and you have accepted the limitations
>of
>> your OS (Windows), from this place of ignorance you think its "effective".
>>
>> The only one who misses out, is you, unless you explore and discover other
>> ways.
>>
>> I have come from a Windows background, admittedly the last time I really
>> used Windows was 1997.
>>
>> Has it really changed that much ?
>>
>> These questions concern Desktop use.
>>
>> Does it do remote GUI now ?
>> Does it allow me to run programs *on* other networked pc's.
>> Does it come with thousands of free high quality programs ?
>> Does it have a choice of Window Managers ?
>> Can I have a WM that does NOT use icons, as I hate icons ?
>> Can I run a http, a irc and a ftp server from my *desktop* ?
>> Does it include all the C development tools I need, and for free ?
>> Will it stay up for weeks between power outages?
>> Can I have the 22 Virtual desktops I have now ?
>> Can I leave the 14 apps open continuously that are open now, spread
>> across the 22 Virtual Desktops ?
>>
>> This is my idea of "effective", whats yours ?
>>
>>
>> > Hell, I read that W2k even beats Linux in server
>> >benchmarks!
>> Hell I read that Elle McPherson is a great lover.
>>
>> > But if Linux is better I would use it. Pity it is not.
>> How would you know ?
>> Your a self admitted tinkerer with Linux.
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Terry
>> --
>> **** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
>> My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
>> up 1 week 14 hours 53 minutes
>> ** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
>
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 1 week 2 days 17 hours 53 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
From: Charles Philip Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 22 Jun 2000 23:08:58 +0500
>>>>> "Henry" == Henry Blaskowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I know you think this an obvious fact, but I have yet to see
> anything that MS did that differs significantly from what every
> other successful business in the US does. Feel free to 'rehash'
> this issue, since it has never been 'hashed' in the first place.
If they haven't done anything wrong then:
(1) why would they have to doctor video tapes (and badly at that) in
court? That just floored me.
(2) What about the smoking gun memo concerning Palm Pilot when Gates
said that they should rework their OS's to only work with Windows
CE based PDA's?
(3) What about putting false error messages in your OS to make it look
like the competitor's superior product doesn't work with Windows,
such as DR DOS?
(4) How are withholding part of the API and delaying giving the API to
3rd party developers to gain a competitive edge?
(5) How about threatening hardware makers with hugh OEM price hikes if
they dare to preload any other OS but Windows?
(6) How about putting a clause in their OEM contacts that prohibit the
hardware makers to sell bare bone systems with no Windows? That
amounts to a Micosoft tax to us non-Windows users.
Charles
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Stupid idiots that think KDE is a Window Manager
From: Charles Philip Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 22 Jun 2000 23:23:32 +0500
>>>>> "Roberto" == Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In article
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 02:07:00 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> (Christopher Browne) wrote:
>>
>> >KDE is _NOT_ a window manager.
>> Call it whatever you want... it's still a pathetic clone of the
>> Windows 9x style UI that's ugly and slow.
So the Mac GUI is a clone of Xerox Star, the Windows GUI is a clone of
Mac and KDE is a clone of Windows, who cares? There is so much you can
do in a WIMP (Windows, Icons, Mouse, Pointers) environment.
Charles
------------------------------
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
From: Charles Philip Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 22 Jun 2000 23:46:45 +0500
>>>>> "nobody" == <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Or alternately: You find it, and it trashes several system DLL's
> during the installation
Welcome to DLL hell! Hey, whatever happen to Windows Manifest that is
suppose to replace the Install Shields that does check for
dependencies?
> and also zeros the first 512 bytes of the Registry, making the
> whole system useless (yes, Tim Palmer, even more useless than a
> Linux box with a dead console), requiring you to re-install, and
> you can only do that if you backed up Windows from the hard
> drive, because you don't get a Windows CD because you might
> pirate it.
No you can't reinstall in a lot of cases because you don't have a
*really* copy of Windows. The best you can do is to restore it to its
originally state with those crappy restore disk that the OEM supply.
Charles
------------------------------
Subject: Re: It's all about the microsurfs
From: Charles Philip Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 23 Jun 2000 00:08:07 +0500
>>>>> "jedi" == <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:55:53 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> idiot....
>>
>> Bring your Linux CD to anyone of the current HP, Compaq
>> internet machines and see how well you fair.
> You never quite know with dregs like these. Although, they
> might just be overpriced versions of what various Linux and
> small 3rd party VARS have been bundling with Linux for quite
> some time now.
Well, IBM is preloading Linux even on the Thinkpad. Dell just made a
deal with Redhat. Gateway and AOL are building Linux based Internet
machines. There is a beta version of Linux for the Compaq Ipaq. I
would say things are moving along quite nicely.
Charles
------------------------------
Subject: Re: X can't be that slow
From: Charles Philip Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 23 Jun 2000 00:12:46 +0500
>>>>> "Robert" == Robert L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I never use X as root. My user use qvwm, else, it's too slow. (
> Do you know some other wm faster than that?)
I used to use Window Maker on a 486-DX 50 with 16 meg of RAM. It was
quite fast.
Charles
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux internal books
From: Charles Philip Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 23 Jun 2000 00:14:29 +0500
>>>>> "simon777" == simon777 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "The Anarchists Cookbook" is a good one.
What? So he can bomb you, you Wintroll!
Charles
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Windows, Easy to Use?
From: Charles Philip Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 23 Jun 2000 00:17:28 +0500
>>>>> "TimL" == TimL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ah, another loveley afternoon dealing with a Windows Protection
> Fault. Does Windows give any indication as to why? No. Does
> Windows let you see what the OS is loading as it loads? No. If
> you do a logged boot does the log file ever get written?
> No. (Not w/ a
> protection error) I've posted about this before and someone
> said its usually bad hardware. BS. In every case I've seen its
> been corrupted *something*. Corrupted what? Who knows, windows
> never gives any indication. Damn, if it did we'd probably know
> more than MS wants us to know about how its OS works.
> Fortunately I did finally figure out it was a corrupt NIC
> driver. But windows was absolutely no help. FSCK MS! :)
But the BSOD is you friend, he is just shy and quiet ;-).
Charles
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: Thinking of reading anything by simon777 ? Read this first before you do
.......
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 23 Jun 2000 12:34:18 +0800
On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:11:08 +0200, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >I am using W2k Pro right now. Sometimes I use Mandrake 7.1. Admittedly
>> >only to tinker with.
>> It shows.
>>
>
>Nope, it does not.
Oh yes it does.
>You have no indication of my technical expertise.
True, but I can observe your Linux expertise, and it's minimal.
> One
>man's tinkering may be another's universe.
True.
>
>
>"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:49:36 +0200, James <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > But this newsgroup will be very boring if everyone
>> >> >just praises Linux.
>> >> Why ?
>> >> Theres a lot to praise, unlike the OS *your* using right now.
>> >>
>> >I am using W2k Pro right now. Sometimes I use Mandrake 7.1. Admittedly
>> >only to tinker with.
>> It shows.
>>
>> > Prefer IE5/OE to Netscape 6 for Linux.
>> Me too.
>>
>> > The latter is
>> >functionally crappy and very slow - especially as a newsreader.
>> Ewwww, use SLRN, or if you must, Forte Agent.
>>
>> >
>> >W2k has many praises and is certainly miles ahead of any Linux distro -
>as
>> >an *effective* desktop.
>> Nonsense, you don't have a clue about the real meaning of "effective".
>>
>> You only know what youve been told,and you have accepted the limitations
>of
>> your OS (Windows), from this place of ignorance you think its "effective".
>>
>> The only one who misses out, is you, unless you explore and discover other
>> ways.
>>
>> I have come from a Windows background, admittedly the last time I really
>> used Windows was 1997.
>>
>> Has it really changed that much ?
>>
>> These questions concern Desktop use.
>>
>> Does it do remote GUI now ?
>> Does it allow me to run programs *on* other networked pc's.
>> Does it come with thousands of free high quality programs ?
>> Does it have a choice of Window Managers ?
>> Can I have a WM that does NOT use icons, as I hate icons ?
>> Can I run a http, a irc and a ftp server from my *desktop* ?
>> Does it include all the C development tools I need, and for free ?
>> Will it stay up for weeks between power outages?
>> Can I have the 22 Virtual desktops I have now ?
>> Can I leave the 14 apps open continuously that are open now, spread
>> across the 22 Virtual Desktops ?
>>
>> This is my idea of "effective", whats yours ?
>>
>>
>> > Hell, I read that W2k even beats Linux in server
>> >benchmarks!
>> Hell I read that Elle McPherson is a great lover.
>>
>> > But if Linux is better I would use it. Pity it is not.
>> How would you know ?
>> Your a self admitted tinkerer with Linux.
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards
>> Terry
>> --
>> **** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
>> My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
>> up 1 week 14 hours 53 minutes
>> ** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
>
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 1 week 2 days 17 hours 53 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:42:04 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Mark S. Bilk" wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> MK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>That would include... forcing vendors to charg a customer for your
> >>product even when they purchase from the competition instead.
> >>
> >>There's a REASON that Microsoft is in court.
> >
> >As the author of "The New Trustbusters" soberly pointed,
>
> Later in this thread, this poster identifies the source of
> "The New Trustbusters" as the so-called "Reason" magazine,
> a (Right-wing) Libertarian publication that defends unregu-
> lated Capitalism without regard to the harm it does to most
> of the population.
>
> >the charge was changing with time.
>
> That's because the coercive, fraudulent, illegal practices
> of Microsoft were gradually being identified.
>
> >In general I think it is just result of vague
> >feeling "we have to punish MS for something, even though we don't
> >know exactly what it is"
>
> Microsoft's practice, as a monopoly, of denying computer
> vendors the ability to sell Windows, if they sold any other
> operating system too, is an outrageous and illegal restraint
> of free trade.
>
> That's not "vague" at all, is it?
>
> However, Libertarians, including (un)Reason magazine, don't
> care. They're in the business of justifying anything that big
> business does. (Un)Reason magazine's website says they get
> half their income from private donors whose identities they
> keep secret.
Reason's problem is that they are not technical people, and
weren't following Microsoft's business practices closely
enough to realize that Microsoft specifically set out to
subvert one of Reason Magazine's primary goals: FREE MARKETS.
>
> Since the magazine constantly prints propaganda saying that
> employers should be allowed to pay their employees as little
As a matter of FACT, employers pay their employees as little
as possible RIGHT NOW.
Ooops, there goes your rediculous attact against libertarianism..
> as they can get away with, and that government shouldn't tax
> wealthy people to provide services like education, healthcare,
> housing, etc., for hard-working people who aren't paid enough
> to afford them, as well as propaganda saying that wealthy
> people who own businesses should not be prevented from spewing
> poisons into the environment, nor from selling dangerous and
> fraudulent products, who do you suppose contributes the secret
> support that keeps the magazine in business?
>
> >Equality requires slavery.
>
> Right-wing Libertarian bullshit. It's slavery to rob
> employees of a large portion of the value they produce, and
> thus pay them low salaries, while the wealthy owners and
> executives are paid 1,000 or 500,000 times as much, for
> the same number of hours work per day. Yet the alleged
> "right" of business owners to do this is the central policy
> of Libertarianism.
>
> That's why Libertarianism is anti-human.
>
> Belief in Libertarianism requires turning a blind eye to
> the factual evidence of harm caused by grossly unequal
> distribution of wealth among people who all work hard.
>
> The *actual result* of this maldistribution of wealth is
> starvation, sickness, and death for many poor people under
> Capitalism.
>
> Mark K, I don't mean to attack you personally, especially
> seeing as you're posting from Poland. But in Russia they
> are finding that unregulated Capitalism is worse for people
> economically than Communism. Both of these systems are
> coercive and cruel. Social Democracy is much better.
>
> http://www.deja.com/=dnc/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=618537352
>
> Links To Reality
> http://www.aliveness.com/msb.html
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
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