Linux-Advocacy Digest #361, Volume #27 Tue, 27 Jun 00 05:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux Upgrades (Mandrake 7.0 to 7.1) (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: You Should Not Treat Linux Like M$ Windows (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Mike Connell)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Comparing Windows NT and UNIX System Management (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: OS's ... (Jeff Szarka)
Re: slashdot (Jeff Szarka)
Re: slashdot (Jeff Szarka)
Re: slashdot (Jeff Szarka)
Re: slashdot (Jeff Szarka)
Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity (Jeff Szarka)
Re: Linux Upgrades (Mandrake 7.0 to 7.1) (Jeff Szarka)
Re: VB suck and Java rules (was: Re: Is Java 'larger' than VB ?) (Michael Marion)
Re: VB suck and Java rules (was: Re: Is Java 'larger' than VB ?) (Martijn Bruns)
Re: VB suck and Java rules (was: Re: Is Java 'larger' than VB ?) (Martijn Bruns)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Upgrades (Mandrake 7.0 to 7.1)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:13:10 GMT
In article <8j9hoo$mnk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ... as easy as
>
> apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
>
> on a Debian system, and it will automagically download and install all
> the packages needed for the upgrade. No need to even reboot, unless
you
> are upgrading your kernel.
Downloading a 600Mbyte upgrade is not an option. At 56k baud it would
take forever and since it costs a minimum of 1p a minute, probably
pricey too.
So the Linux Mandrake distro which is seen as the easiest to use by some
turns out to be a bit of a lemon.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:20:17 GMT
In article <8j0cvd$2a3o$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) wrote:
> Pronounce 'trough' if you would please. Then turn your brain back on.
Sounds like truff. Or would you pronounce it as troo?
> It wouldnt be unreasonable if the two were permanently and
irrecoverably
> intertwined a'la Explorer and the giant lump of shit known as the NT
> kernel. But you can use something other than KDE, because KDE has
> nothing to do with the way linux works at all.
Linux + KDE = workstation equivalent to Windows
Linux != Windows
Linux + Gnome = workstation different to Windows
> > As for calling me a moron, this is a typical response from a Linux
> > rent-a-gob. I see it all the time. Yawn, yawn, yawn.
> >
>
> I'm not surprised at all that you get called a moron all the time.
I only have to look at who is calling me a moron to understand why.
> No, I label you as a moron because you *are* one.
Like I said...
> I wouldnt have interrupted at all, because then you would have had
> an excellent point.
Oh so because I lump Linux with KDE I'm a moron. Can I run KDE on its
own without Linux perhaps? Oh, look I can't can I?
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:23:45 GMT
In article <8j5qfq$vt4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) wrote:
> You are seeing linux incorrectly. There are no opinions here, there
is FACT,
> and there is FALSEHOOD.
And this from someone who labels me a moron? You just don't get it do
you?
> > In Windows case there is DOS and Windows, but DOS is pretty much
ignorable
> > (I know it's there) and Windows can be treated as one package. So,
> > naturally, I lump Linux together as Linux, X and KDE. I'm looking at
it as
> > an alternative to Windows.
>
> Youre incorrect.
Beautiful. About what I'd expect from you. A one liner with very little
content or reason. More noise!
HEY _MORON_! TRY TELLING ME WHY I'M INCORRECT AND I MIGHT PAY ATTENTION!
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: You Should Not Treat Linux Like M$ Windows
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 03:40:24 -0400
Bracy wrote:
>
> In article <8itc4u$7mo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Gee, thanks! Dump it on the poor flat-ear! :^(
>
> I think you missed my point.
>
> I was saying that for most customers, their method of troubleshooting a
> problem is simply to call tech support. Rarely do they do any troubleshooting
> themselves.
Because MicroShit provides no tools to do so.
>
> Bracy
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: Mike Connell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: 27 Jun 2000 09:52:33 +0200
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[snippage]
>
> Oh so because I lump Linux with KDE I'm a moron. Can I run KDE on its
> own without Linux perhaps? Oh, look I can't can I?
>
*You* might not be able to run KDE without Linux, but I beleive other
people can:
=====
http://www.kde.org/documentation/faq/kdefaq.html
2.3 On which platforms can I expect KDE to work?
<blah>
Some of systems on which KDE is running are:
Linux
Solaris
FreeBSD
IRIX
HP-UX
=====
best wishes,
Mike.
--
Mike Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] +46 (0)31 772 8572
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.flat222.org/mac/
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 07:28:38 GMT
In article <8j9fq5$lg8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I'm looking at it as
> > an alternative to Windows.
>
> That's nice but don't expect Linux to be like Windows. It isn't.
Oh I can see that. I can see the inconsistancies, the holes and
mish-mash of ideas. This is the system that is trumpeted here as the
downfall of Windows. Yet I can't even do something as simple as an
Upgrade with one distro.
Linux (+KDE or +Gnome) is nothing like Windows. Windows I can expect
things to work together. Linux doesn't even do that! I tried drag and
drop between KDE's Window Manager and KDE's Explorer - blimey! - doesn't
work! And that's just one of the holes I've found so far.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 03:41:32 -0400
z wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk) wrote:
>
> >Microsoft's practice, as a monopoly, of denying computer
> >vendors the ability to sell Windows, if they sold any other
> >operating system too, is an outrageous and illegal restraint
> >of free trade.
>
> Hmm ... you know, I don't recall any Ford dealer
> that sells new Chevys too. Could it be that MS
> was simply following a common business practice ?
Such dealerships are common in Detroit.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 03:42:32 -0400
Henry Blaskowski wrote:
>
> In talk.politics.libertarian Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > When everyone is offered a discount, it's no longer a discount, it's
> > something that becomes a must-have if you want to compete. Microsoft's
> > threat to remove these "discounts" is, because of their power, essentially
> > a threat to put the company in question out of business ( especially in
> > more extreme cases where they threatened to refuse to distribute Windows
> > to the OEM, period )
>
> > Clearly, threatening to put an OEM out of business is a restraint of trade.
>
> They produce a product. Other people want it. Does the other people
> wanting it imply that the other people own it? Or do you think the
> producer owns it and should be able to set the terms for it's release?
> will you apply the same principles to your life?
Are you really a complete moron, or do you just play one on USENET?
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Comparing Windows NT and UNIX System Management
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 03:52:21 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Mikey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Thus Sprake The Ghost In The Machine:
> > >
> > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote on 25 Jun 2000 15:41:13 -0500 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/bin/nts/ntsysman.exe
> > >
> > > [2] What, precisely, is the point of serving a .exe file? Is this
> > > executed from the server side, or the client?
> >
> > I wonder... Could it be an .exe virii or worm that runs on M$ Outhouse?
>
> Virii or worms that run on one of the biggest worms in todays computing
> environment as a host?
Just like in the biological world...
most parasites play host to other parasites.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS's ...
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 03:59:37 -0400
On 26 Jun 2000 20:41:33 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) wrote:
>Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:25:13 GMT, "Pedro Iglesias"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>I was just trying to share some thoughts, if you do not like them, do not
>>>answer them
>>>and if you do, at least be a little polite. I am probably working with
>>>computers before
>>>you were born ... anyway, arguing that is stupid.
>>
>> Welcome to the club... These people don't care what anyone thinks...
>> They're just Microsoft ver 2.0. I mean really... doesn't the whole "WE
>> WANT DESKTOP DOMINACNCE NOW!" remind you of someone?
>
>Who exactly is saying that, jeff?
Redhat... Corel... Mandrake... many more.
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: slashdot
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 04:02:17 -0400
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:14:08 GMT, "TimL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just don't understand the contect of what you're saying.
Both sites provide a service... They make plenty of money off me in a
month from banner ads.
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: slashdot
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 04:06:56 -0400
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 22:22:03 GMT, "TimL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
>> Like I said... it doesn't matter why it was down. I thought Linux was
>> great at clustering? If you believe Linux is as great as every says
>> slashdot.org should be run on a p233 with 32MB of ram and never fail.
>
>OK, now I'm starting to think you are moron. Who says Slashdot has enough
>resources for clustering. Who says they aren't having problems with the ISP
>upstream?
Uh... Well lets see... VA Linux bought Andover in a deal that was
worth over 100 Million. I know Linux companies are having some hard
times but they can't spare a few thousand to make their sites actually
work?
>Your origonal point was a good one. Perhaps if Hotmail went down Linux
>Advocates would start pointing fingers at NT. But as my kidnergarten
>teacher said "2 wrongs don't make a right". If you think pointing fingers without
>facts is wrong, why are you doing the same? Seems pretty childish.
Well this is an advocacy group...
>>>You're grasping at straws, Jeff. No amount of problems with Slashdot
>>>will make Microsoft's products quit sucking.
>>
>> It has nothing to do with Microsoft besides the obvious point that Linux
>> advocacy and Linux users are more anti-Microsoft than pro-Linux.
>
>And this suprises you? Yes this is a completly obvious point. You bring it up
>because...?
Thank you...
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: slashdot
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 04:07:40 -0400
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:07:25 -0700, Salvador Peralta
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Your origonal point was a good one. Perhaps if Hotmail went down Linux
>> Advocates would start pointing fingers at NT.
>
>Why would they? micros~1 can't get hotmail to work on nt. Hotmail runs
>on Sun Solaris b/c nt can't handle the load. IBM had a similar problem
>with NT at their rochester campus when they tried to replace 12 AS/400's
>with more than 1000 nt boxes, found that nt couldn't handle the load and
>went back to using the 400.
I'll ask yet again... Where is the proof MS ever tried to run Hotmail
on NT?
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: slashdot
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 04:08:06 -0400
On 26 Jun 2000 17:44:40 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
wrote:
>>Like I said... it doesn't matter why it was down. I thought Linux was
>>great at clustering? If you believe Linux is as great as every says
>>slashdot.org should be run on a p233 with 32MB of ram and never fail.
>
>You didn't really establish that it was down - you just couldn't
>resolve it's name which is just as likely a problem with your
>DNS or your ISP. Did you try a traceroute to their nameserver
>to see why you weren't getting a response to your DNS query?
>Only a small site would run DNS on the web server and there
>are always at least two DNS servers. If you can't reach one of
>them it may not be their fault.
I asked many others... they were having the same problem.
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 04:09:57 -0400
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:38:33 -0400, sandrews
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Jeff Szarka is a prime example!
Once again... I admit I might have judged Linux users to harshly and
something comes along to reinforce my initial opinion.
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Upgrades (Mandrake 7.0 to 7.1)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 04:11:17 -0400
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:22:28 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:49:09 GMT, Pedro Iglesias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Best way of upgrading whatever is always backing up, installing
>>and restoring.
>
> The structure of Unix makes such extremism unecessary.
So you're saying on paper it works... This guy is saying it didn't. I
trend to believe real life (TM) over a stack of papers.
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: VB suck and Java rules (was: Re: Is Java 'larger' than VB ?)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 08:33:34 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Do they now? Bull! Where have you been?
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2556513,00.html
What a Bullshit comparison that is...
- They compare $4000 worth of software (W2k AS w/ IIS) vs. $180 and $75
for Linux and Solaris respectivly... and don't seem to factor that
glaring cost into the comparison.
- Several of the points which have Yeses or nos (and effect their
comparison) refer to "wizards," "GUI admin," and "browser based
monitoring" which for most admins (especially unix admins) aren't worth
crap. Wizards end up taking more time while doing a bad job setting up
configs, and GUI admin is way to much overhead, and rarely (if ever)
give anything over text-based admin.
- They also say that Solaris can't "view server logs with base product,"
Uh, what? I can sure log into a Solaris server and use any tool I want
to view the logs. Solaris is part of the "base product."
- They choose an Ultra 80 for the Solaris box, which while an impressive
desktop/workgroup box, it's nowhere near the top of the line for Sparcs
and doesn't have hot-swappable parts.
- The only negative for Solaris in the HA category is "Rotate server log
without restart" which might not even be true, often simply HUPing a
process will let go of file descriptors without completely restarting
the process. Yet it only gets 4 out of 5 for HA.
- Solaris only gets 3/5 for Security and Admin?!? I'll take unix
security and the admin capabilities of a Sparc over a PC running windows
any frickin' day. What happens if your server falls over so bad that
networking is dead? A sparc, you can still get to the console via a
serial conenction if you setup your server room properly... windows?
You're screwed since you have to be at the machine to do anything
remotely without full networking.
- Solaris gets 2/5 and Linux 3/5 for development. What it _has_ to be a
GUI tool to count? They seem to forget all the free tools you can get
on the net too.
- Performance is 5/5 for windows but not on anything else? What the
hell is that based on? They don't bother breaking that one down in
their chart.
- The chart shows for one Solaris 8 column that is doesn't support IPv6
and IPSec, but the other does... uh, Solaris 8 does. Did they not pay
attention?
Oh and "...from ZDNet which anything but a Gates lover!" Where have you
been? ZDNet has been like an MS shill... until recently (i.e. during
the Anti-Trust trial). Funny how that works.
--
Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc.
"HTML [e-]mail... the 90's equivalent of letters on scented stationary."
--Dan
Foygel 3 Jun 1998
------------------------------
From: Martijn Bruns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: VB suck and Java rules (was: Re: Is Java 'larger' than VB ?)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 10:57:31 +0200
Michael Marion schreef:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Do they now? Bull! Where have you been?
> >
> > http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2556513,00.html
>
> What a Bullshit comparison that is...
> - They compare $4000 worth of software (W2k AS w/ IIS) vs. $180 and $75
> for Linux and Solaris respectivly... and don't seem to factor that
> glaring cost into the comparison.
> - Several of the points which have Yeses or nos (and effect their
> comparison) refer to "wizards," "GUI admin," and "browser based
> monitoring" which for most admins (especially unix admins) aren't worth
> crap. Wizards end up taking more time while doing a bad job setting up
> configs, and GUI admin is way to much overhead, and rarely (if ever)
> give anything over text-based admin.
> - They also say that Solaris can't "view server logs with base product,"
> Uh, what? I can sure log into a Solaris server and use any tool I want
> to view the logs. Solaris is part of the "base product."
> - They choose an Ultra 80 for the Solaris box, which while an impressive
> desktop/workgroup box, it's nowhere near the top of the line for Sparcs
> and doesn't have hot-swappable parts.
> - The only negative for Solaris in the HA category is "Rotate server log
> without restart" which might not even be true, often simply HUPing a
> process will let go of file descriptors without completely restarting
> the process. Yet it only gets 4 out of 5 for HA.
> - Solaris only gets 3/5 for Security and Admin?!? I'll take unix
> security and the admin capabilities of a Sparc over a PC running windows
> any frickin' day. What happens if your server falls over so bad that
> networking is dead? A sparc, you can still get to the console via a
> serial conenction if you setup your server room properly... windows?
> You're screwed since you have to be at the machine to do anything
> remotely without full networking.
> - Solaris gets 2/5 and Linux 3/5 for development. What it _has_ to be a
> GUI tool to count? They seem to forget all the free tools you can get
> on the net too.
> - Performance is 5/5 for windows but not on anything else? What the
> hell is that based on? They don't bother breaking that one down in
> their chart.
> - The chart shows for one Solaris 8 column that is doesn't support IPv6
> and IPSec, but the other does... uh, Solaris 8 does. Did they not pay
> attention?
>
> Oh and "...from ZDNet which anything but a Gates lover!" Where have you
> been? ZDNet has been like an MS shill... until recently (i.e. during
> the Anti-Trust trial). Funny how that works.
And i noticed another thing. Why do they keep insisting that Red
Hat equals Linux?!
The review even talks about "Linux 6.1"! Are they ever going to
learn?
--
It shows our files neatly in someone else's tree,
While our desktops show a BSOD,
Our home-made viruses can really run free.
It's made by our favorite monopoly!
------------------------------
From: Martijn Bruns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: VB suck and Java rules (was: Re: Is Java 'larger' than VB ?)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:00:25 +0200
Michael Marion schreef:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Do they now? Bull! Where have you been?
> >
> > http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2556513,00.html
>
> What a Bullshit comparison that is...
> - They compare $4000 worth of software (W2k AS w/ IIS) vs. $180 and $75
> for Linux and Solaris respectivly... and don't seem to factor that
> glaring cost into the comparison.
> - Several of the points which have Yeses or nos (and effect their
> comparison) refer to "wizards," "GUI admin," and "browser based
> monitoring" which for most admins (especially unix admins) aren't worth
> crap. Wizards end up taking more time while doing a bad job setting up
> configs, and GUI admin is way to much overhead, and rarely (if ever)
> give anything over text-based admin.
> - They also say that Solaris can't "view server logs with base product,"
> Uh, what? I can sure log into a Solaris server and use any tool I want
> to view the logs. Solaris is part of the "base product."
> - They choose an Ultra 80 for the Solaris box, which while an impressive
> desktop/workgroup box, it's nowhere near the top of the line for Sparcs
> and doesn't have hot-swappable parts.
> - The only negative for Solaris in the HA category is "Rotate server log
> without restart" which might not even be true, often simply HUPing a
> process will let go of file descriptors without completely restarting
> the process. Yet it only gets 4 out of 5 for HA.
> - Solaris only gets 3/5 for Security and Admin?!? I'll take unix
> security and the admin capabilities of a Sparc over a PC running windows
> any frickin' day. What happens if your server falls over so bad that
> networking is dead? A sparc, you can still get to the console via a
> serial conenction if you setup your server room properly... windows?
> You're screwed since you have to be at the machine to do anything
> remotely without full networking.
> - Solaris gets 2/5 and Linux 3/5 for development. What it _has_ to be a
> GUI tool to count? They seem to forget all the free tools you can get
> on the net too.
> - Performance is 5/5 for windows but not on anything else? What the
> hell is that based on? They don't bother breaking that one down in
> their chart.
> - The chart shows for one Solaris 8 column that is doesn't support IPv6
> and IPSec, but the other does... uh, Solaris 8 does. Did they not pay
> attention?
>
> Oh and "...from ZDNet which anything but a Gates lover!" Where have you
> been? ZDNet has been like an MS shill... until recently (i.e. during
> the Anti-Trust trial). Funny how that works.
Also, (followup), try reading the review for Windows 2000 and
then tell me ZDNet is not a Mightgosoft-shill! It reads like one
big fscking Mightgosoft-commercial. Yeach!
> --
> Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc.
> "HTML [e-]mail... the 90's equivalent of letters on scented stationary."
> --Dan
> Foygel 3 Jun 1998
--
It shows our files neatly in someone else's tree,
While our desktops show a BSOD,
Our home-made viruses can really run free.
It's made by our favorite monopoly!
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