Linux-Advocacy Digest #378, Volume #27 Wed, 28 Jun 00 06:13:04 EDT
Contents:
RE: OS's ... ("Pedro Iglesias")
RE: Linux is junk ("Pedro Iglesias")
Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity (Mario Aparicio)
Re: How fast is your text? (gLiTcH)
Re: UNIX/Linux and DNA (Nico Coetzee)
RE: Do not like Windows but ... ("Pedro Iglesias")
Why linux sucks and why linux is best (farraway)
Re: Corel Does Nothing To Help The Linux Cause (Sean Akers)
RE: Do not like Windows but ... ("Pedro Iglesias")
Re: LILO problems -- Any suggestions? (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: stability of culture of helpfulness ("Andrew N. McGuire ")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: OS's ...
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:24:59 GMT
> You really didn't realize you were trying to give yourself credibility at
the
> expense of my credibility? I find that hard to believe.
I could say the same. The sentences quoted from you are the prove, and those
appeared just after my opinion that should have been answerd with reasong or
just quoting my mistakes.
> By the way, I thought my 'bashing' was considerably less than the bashing
> you've gotten from other posters. How come you like their bashing more
than
> mine?
> Nothing was mentioned in my original reply about computer
> experience.....Sorry, but you did put your bluff out there.
I think "better learn about anything" is rather rude. Perhaps you thought
that
I was a man that installed Mandrake and did not how to configure it, but you
were wrong at this point. I am not a wintroll, in fact I work as a Linux and
Solaris system administrator (believe or not).
> This was my way of saying that your post is seemingly inaccurate, and
stated
> in the manner of a troll.
In this post you've pointed what you think were my mistakes much more
politely,
as an example.
> Frankly, I'm still trying to make up my mind as to
> if you are really a troll. And, yes, I replied to you just like I would
reply
> to a standard Wintroll. I really feel you had 2 very bad inaccuracies in
your
> original post: 1. In all the years I've run Windows 3.0 to Windows NT,
> SP6....Windows has never been stable....Ever....I have gotten a whole
history
> of Blue Screen of Deaths, Lockups, and Application Weirdness that develops
if
> I leave Windows running for more than 24 hours.
Sure, me too, my Windows is not diffrent from yours, I was more than other
thing
thinking about desktop user. Anyway, I think Windows has improved a lot
since
Windows 3.0, despite all the errors it keeps on carrying.
>2. Linux and Windows aren't
> going to converge....
That was my only opinion, and the one that I wanted comments about, it is
just my
thought, not only for Windows and Linux, but for rather almost any OS. I may
be
wrong, but I am not a stupid for that.
>You've got to understand that Windows had nothing to do
> with the development of Linux (which is one reason Linux is much more
> stable).
No one claimed against Linux or Unix stability.
>Also, just because some Desktops happen to
> look close to Windows doesn't mean that they are in any way related to
> Windows. So, yes, I feel you were misleading and responded to you
> appropriately.
Okay, I like much more this answer. I did not mention KDE, I feel it has
more
to do with the GUI way of doing things, not only KDE or GNOME. On the
other side, I miss a Windows 2000 good shell, by the way.
> You might also noticed, I
> haven't been on that many threads. You, on the other, have done many
> responses on just about all the threads and subthreads. That, too, is
troll
> behavior.
Shouldn't I answer people that answered my initial post ? Remember that my
initial interest was having your opinions about what I posted. Am I a troll
for
resposing people ? Anyway, am I a troll for posting whatever I want in this
list at my free time ? Can't understand what this have to see with my post.
By
the way, I was not looking for you all around the news. Just answer what I
consider I must do.
------------------------------
From: "Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Linux is junk
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 08:25:00 GMT
> I wasted $40 on Corel Office and wish I could get my hard earned money
> back!
You should have asked before. No Linux user would have recommended
Corel for you. Believe me.
> I also wasted another $60 on Partition Magic, like Corel suggested.
More wasted money.
> First off the piece of shit destroyed my hard drive and erased 2 years
> worth
> of data I had saved. Lucky for me I have a backup on CD but it is
> a couple of days old.
Well, it seems that it was really you and not Corel. It is a bad distro,
but
I think that knowing what you do is less dangerous than Windows.
> The install kept failing over and over again dying on my SCSI controller
> but finally, and mysteriously it worked despite my not changing
> anything.
Not far from some Windows behaviour. Anyway, I do not like autodetecting,
I prefer selecting my card from a list if supported.
> My sound card didn't work.
You must configure it. You should have asked someone, because it is really
simple to do it normally.
> My video card ran slow as a snail.
You should have upgraded to XFree86 4.0, much more fast. Anyway I think
that for most cards slower than Windows drivers.
> My network card didn't work.
That's almost incredible.
> My printer didn't work
May be a Winprinter ? If not, it should work properly. Even my HP winprinter
works
fine at Linux.
> My scanner didn't work.
That's a bigger problem unless it is SCSI.
> My modem worked but kept disconnecting.Something about a PPP demon
> dying?
Each real modem works at Linux as fine as it could play at any OS or better.
> All of these devices worked out right away with Windows 98 SE and
> also with Win2k.
Just installed ? No need printer, scanner, sound card, graphics card drivers
?
Well, at Linux you have to do something, it is not magic.
> Linux has been around longer than Win2k, so why the shitty hardware
> support?
Not shitty support, but I think you failed to know how to configure. Anyway,
Microsoft has got a wider (by now) hardware support than Linux has. But
I think Microsoft used non-legal tactics to get this hardware support.
> Shitpile Linux didn't even recognize my USB ports.
Kernel 2.3.x and 2.4 works with most USB devices.
> Is this Linux stuff some kind of a joke or something? I'd like to be let
> in on the joke please because I have lost data and wasted the better
> part
> of the weekend trying to make this smelly piece of trash work.
First of all you should have investigated if Linux was for you, before
trying
to install. Then, you should have asked people who know for help, and
third, you shouln't have wanted to have another Windows in 2 hours. Linux
is different, and if you do not know it, you must get accostumed to it, and
learn things, just as you did on Windows platforms before.
> I played around with the various applications included with Corel and
> quite frankly, it looks like Linux is some 1980's throw back. Reminds
> me of Pong and Visicalc.
Do you talk about apparience or about funcionality or stability ?
> I can see no way in hell that this piece of sewerage can be given to
> people who are happily running Windows.
I've always thought Linux is not a good desktop for everyone (for many
yes, but no for everyone), may be you are inside my non-linux-desktop set.
> No way.
> Linux just plain stinks.
For you.
> It is like a full lower bowel that needs to be purged.
And besides as a server it works very very fine.
> The only plus i got from my short lived experience with Linux is that
> I will surely let all my enemies know about it so they can have their
> systems destroyed like I have.
I insist it was you the one that destroyed your system. And if you had
not backup, twice guilty.
> How you tell it is stable?
> First you have to get it running.
If you have doubts ask, but, how can't you tell it is unstable if you have
not
been able to install it ?
> Never even looked at a readme for windows.
Because Windows just does whatever it wants without asking. It is far less
flexible and far less open too.
> Windows has no equal...At least not yet....
For some desktop things, I think you're right. But that's far from saying
that it
is bad at all.
> Linux is a bomb..........
False.
------------------------------
From: Mario Aparicio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:04:11 +0200
glen vajcner wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As an avid Linux user, I am here asking for your help. I am in the
> process of writing a little term paper for a university course on the
> troubles surrounding Microsoft. My standpoint is that Microsoft is
> responsible for general user stupidity (per se) and ignorance, as well
> as a lack of creativity in the workplace. This is undoubtedly due to
> their dominant market share and ability to lull users into a sense of
> "what i don't see can't hurt me".
>
> What I am looking for is links, references, etc. on examples, ideas, or
> whatever that could perhaps support this argument, or on anything
> related to this. I have found a few resources out there, especially
> statistics and information on software bundling which would eventually
> lead to this state of negative creativity, but more are always
> appreciated. I am not asking you to do my research for me. I am just
> wondering if you have anything available off the top of your head. The
> linux community has been great to me, so I hope that it can help me out
> in proving this anti-Microsoft point.
>
> As well, if you have arguments against this, that is, in favour of
> Microsoft and their little-i innovation, I would love to hear them.
> Anything! So that messages don't clutter up the newsgroup, I would
> appreciate, when appropriate, emails as opposed to newsgroup postings. I
> am sure that not everyone on here wants to read this. Please use your
> discretion.
>
> If you think I'm full of it, I'm sorry. I'm just looking for a helping
> hand - an Essay-HOWTO of sorts *s*. I appreciate any help you may
> provide.
>
> Wishing you all the best, and offering my thanks,
>
> glen vajcner
It is a little exstreme to blame Microsoft for ignorance and lack of
creativity. It seems like the developement of computer softwaree tends
to go towards simplicisty and awaiability. Even though I am a Linux
user and I think it's superior to MsWindows in many ways, I can't say
that it's a better OS for everyone. If it had not been for Microsoft
I relly doubt that PC's would be that widely used by private
individuals. What Ms has done, is to simplify use of personal
computers to make them usable by the masses.
User stupidity? Well, does a PC user have to know exactly what's
going on in a computer in order to use it properly?
I think you would be better off trying to write your paper from a
subjective point of view. I guess both pros and cons of MS
should be stated.
Anyway, good luck with your paper!!!
Mario Aparicio
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 03:32:47 -0500
From: gLiTcH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How fast is your text?
and if i'm not mistaken you are still in windows mode with that fulll screen
dos window
Just because it is full screen doesn't mean you are totally in text mode now.
He means with no Windows in the background slowing it down, which you might be
able to hit F8 at bootup to get the menu and select Command Prompt only but I
don't know if NT has that option or not.
Brandon
Ray Chason wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
>
> >This makes NT look sick -- an over 50x speedup. To be fair, of
> >course, I should run NT in text mode for this benchmark. That is,
> >if there is one.
>
> Open a DOS window, and then press Alt-Enter. Press Alt-Enter again to
> return it to windowed mode.
>
> --
> --------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
> PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
> Delenda est Windoze
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:18:53 +0200
From: Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: UNIX/Linux and DNA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> A little info on how Unix and Linux helped map human DNA...
>
> http://www.vnunet.com/News/1104919
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
I would have thought it odd if M$ were used...
--
==============
The following signature was created automatically under Linux:
.
The seven eyes of Ningauble the Wizard floated back to his hood as he
reported to Fafhrd: "I have seen much, yet cannot explain all. The Gray
Mouser is exactly twenty-five feet below the deepest cellar in the palace
of Gilpkerio Kistomerces. Even though twenty-four parts in twenty-five of
him are dead, he is alive.
"Now about Lankhmar. She's been invaded, her walls breached
everywhere and desperate fighting is going on in the streets, by a fierce
host which out-numbers Lankhamar's inhabitants by fifty to one -- and
equipped with all modern weapons. Yet you can save the city."
"How?" demanded Fafhrd.
Ningauble shrugged. "You're a hero. You should know."
-- Fritz Leiber, "The Swords of Lankhmar"
------------------------------
From: "Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Do not like Windows but ...
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:34:42 GMT
Tell me what you talk about and I'll tell you what you miss.
------------------------------
From: farraway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Why linux sucks and why linux is best
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:43:27 +0200
Ordinary people, that doesn't use hours on learing operating
systems, use windows and they are happy with it. Office is
better than star office etc. I think windows98 and NT is better
for 1) ordinary use with office, photoshop, games etc. I think
Linux is better for companies that need more secure on their
servers. Theese comanies only hire some geeks to setup and
run their servers properly. I think many "Linux people" not
only uses Linux as a operating system but also as a religion.
It doesn't matter for ordinary people that the security isn't on top
because without many windowsprogs many doesn't
need a PC. OK Linux is good, i have tried it several times,
but it's best for servers and it isn't good for personal useage.
Why doesn't Linux support USB and plug and play?
------------------------------
From: Sean Akers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corel Does Nothing To Help The Linux Cause
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:43:58 +0100
On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 14:57:30 +0200, Martijn Bruns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
[snipped stuff about Corel Linux being pants]
>But as usual, it's the one rotten apple that spoils the whole
>basket. I'd say try SuSE, it's in my opinion the best Linux
>distribution available.
I agree with Martijn. Get SuSE. IMHO it's by far the best distro. Good
installs with a choice of an easy auto installer for newbies or a
powerful installer for experienced folk. It just works, plain and
simple.
Sean
------------------------------
From: "Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Do not like Windows but ...
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 09:43:49 GMT
> MicroShaft lemmings: open your mind! It'll only help you. 95% of Linux
> users know more about Windows than 95% of Windows users. And yet they use
> Linux . . . hmmmm, that's telltale, isn't it?
I know I know, I am both Linux and Windows user, like most of those
only-linux-is
at my computer ones.
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LILO problems -- Any suggestions?
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:24:19 GMT
In article <8j66u7$9ps$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have recently wasted a weekend trying to grapple with a problem
> caused by:
>
> 1. Microsoft WindowsNT and a multi-os environment. I'll never do this
> again. Fucking pain in the ass.
>
> 2. LILO (RedHat installer).
>
> 3. A bad hard drive.
>
> Disk #1 is on SCSI ID 0. On that disk, I had installed WindowsNT 4.0 /
> SP6. Disk #2 is on SCSI ID 1 (on channel B). There I had installed
> Linux (RedHat 6.1). I **SWEAR** the RedHat installer DID NOT ASK ME if
> I wanted LILO installed. I really didn't want it installed. But it's
> there....
>
> LILO, of course, appears to be installed on disk #1 (SCSI 0).
>
> However, disk #2 is going bad. I first noticed it when in WindowsNT
> with it failing to write to the master file table on the drive.
Check VERY CAREFULLY to make sure everything is properly terminated.
Often a SCSI drive will appear to go south when the terminators are
either enabled on the wrong drive, enabled on the card, or enabled on
too many devices.
The bad news is that SCSI thinks the sector is bad, marks it as a bad
sector and you think your hard drive has gone south for the winter.
> On reboot, the bios sometimes could not see disk #2. When this would
> happen, and when disk #1 would attempt to boot, LILO would load part
> way and then freeze. It literally would print to the screen:
>
> LI
Same problem.
> and then I could not boot either LInux (drive is unavailable, of
> course) nor NT since I couldn't tell LILO to continue with the default
> disk and partition, even though that disk (SCSI 0, if you recall) is
> okay.
Boot NT using the emergency boot disk, and set up a boot alternative
that lets you boot the second drive. You'll still be calling LILO,
but you won't care.
> How does one get around this? I know, I know, I know: format /mbr or
> uninstall LILO with dd if=/boot/boot.0300 (or whatever) when I am in
> Linux. Problem: Can't run an OS to do that!! I'm forced to reinstall
an
> OS on another partition on another drive, even though my boot drive is
> fine. When drive #2 DOES appear on the SCSI chain (yes, it's flaky), I
> can't boot Linux. Kernel pannic trying to read past end of device...
You might want to consider setting up a boot partition on the
first drive. Typically, you can set up / on the main drive, then
create partitions for /usr, /var and /home on the second drive.
putting the swap on the first drive will also improve overall
performance.
> If I were to succeed in installing LInux yet again on another drive,
it
> would backup the master boot record, but that backup would be the
> *current* MBR -- not the one I want (archived to my existing but
> damaged install on disk #2).
>
> Most of my headaches this weekend were caused by trying to get
> WindowsNT to boot, and then trying to get Windows2000 to run, and then
> trying to reboot into my original environment. I'm not complaining
> about RedHat Linux (except that I didn't like LILO being installed).
> I'm complaining mostly about LILO.
Mandrake, SuSE, and Corel have alternatives to LILO. Unfortunately,
you do need some program on your Linux partition that tells you where
to find the Linux kernel. Windows assumes that it has the entire
boot program in a known place (the First Cylinder).
> It seems to me that if LILO needs to
> read from another hard disk drive other
> than the one it is installed
> on, and that drive is bad or has been
> removed, you're completely fucked.
Normally, if you can boot from a floppy (either MS-DOS, NT, or Linux)
you can use FDISK to switch the boot partition to the C: drive.
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
--
Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
I/T Architect, MIS Director
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 90 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Andrew N. McGuire " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: stability of culture of helpfulness
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 23:39:06 GMT
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
+ In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0006252222390.4371-
+ [EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
+ "Andrew N. McGuire " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
+ > You are a real piece of work. Learn to spell, get an idea of what
+ > you are talking about, then maybe post if you have something useful
+ > to contribute, troll.
+
+ I believe that would make you the troll-ee. Nice spelling flame too!
Not the 'troll-ee', but the *plonker*. :-) Big difference.
anm
--
/*-------------------------------------------------------.
| Andrew N. McGuire |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
`-------------------------------------------------------*/
------------------------------
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