Linux-Advocacy Digest #389, Volume #27 Thu, 29 Jun 00 06:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: How fast is your text? (Jeff Szarka)
Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity (Jeff Szarka)
Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies....
(abraxas)
Re: Linux is junk (David Steinberg)
Re: Competition and Open Source (Martijn Bruns)
RE: Why linux sucks and why linux is best ("Pedro Iglesias")
Re: VB suck and Java rules (was: Re: Is Java 'larger' than VB ?) (Michael Marion)
Re: Windows98 (Michael Marion)
Win32 core instability (davelists)
Pentum 4? ("Hot Java")
Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity (Truckasaurus)
Re: Why linux sucks and why linux is best (Nico Coetzee)
Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity (Truckasaurus)
Re: Win32 core instability (Nico Coetzee)
Re: Pentum 4? (Nico Coetzee)
Re: Pentum 4? ("1$worth")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How fast is your text?
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 01:20:01 -0400
On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:05:08 -0700, Ciaran
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>in his original post. I think s/he was trying to point out how
>Pete whathisname was post stupid and invalid comparisons.
I haven't been following this group closely... I'm not sure who Pete
whoever is. This test, and any like it, are invalid.
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 01:21:50 -0400
On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:17:42 -0400, sandrews
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Once again... I admit I might have judged Linux users to harshly and
>> something comes along to reinforce my initial opinion.
>
> How do you know I am a Linux user?
> I think your predigest is showing.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies....
Date: 29 Jun 2000 05:38:16 GMT
Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2000 19:02:26 -0400, Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Tim Palmer wrote:
>>
>>> I halve a Linux machine that goes down every day because of Netscape.
>>
>>That is so obviously a lie. If you had said Netscape crashes every day , that would
>be believable, But Netscape crashing will not bring down Linux. You should really
>try to come up
>>with more convincing lies. You are really bad at it.
>
> OK, It crashes "X", which counts as the saim thing to most users.
>
It doesnt crash "X", and any user that that counts the same for should
immediately be relieved of their computer and subsequently set adrift.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Steinberg)
Subject: Re: Linux is junk
Date: 29 Jun 2000 07:49:53 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: >Don't forget realizing that the drive you were going to use as the
: >master is 2 cm too far away from open slot and, as a result, having to
: >re-shuffle all the drives to make it work with your cable.
: ...sounds like a Compaq or other result of the : "well I can
: just go into CompUSA and buy the first random piece of shit I
: find" mentality.
:
Hardly. I had my machine custom built from all the parts I wanted (all
well-supported by Linux), and the quality of the machine was
excellent. But, for some reason, they decided that the best way to make
it work with the cable they had was to put the ATAPI zip drive as the
slave of the udma/66 HDD (what a waste)! When I went to add another hard
drive, I had to switch around the cable, discover that it wasn't long
enough, and start shuffling.
: All of those 'inconveniences' are strictly mechanical are highly
: unlikely to harm your data or interfere with your current OS
: configuration. If you can't handle them successfuly, running
: anything that modifies your partition table is like juggling
: with chainsaws.
Agreed. However, such inconveniences can make a simple task take much
longer than one would first expect -- certainly more than 15 minutes. This
is not usually the case with re-partitioning a hard drive. It can be done
quite quickly, and the amount of time can be estimated quite
reliably. Of course, if one is not careful/clueful, he might have to
reach for the backups (but then, if he's not careful/clueful, there's a
good chance he doesn't have backups, either...).
--
David Steinberg -o)
Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
------------------------------
From: Martijn Bruns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Competition and Open Source
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:57:22 +0200
Osugi Sakae schreef:
>
> Warning: personal opinions and observations ahead. If you can't
> deal with that, you shouldn't be here.
Ok, let's see.
> Most readers of COLA are used to Winvocates and general anti-
> linux types attacking linux because it can't do (whatever) or
> doesn't support (whatever). Sometimes they have valid points,
> othertimes they are FUDing, often with facts that _used_ to be
> true.
Well, at least we (the Linux community) can see the difference.
Problems are solved while you wait.
> I have been using Linux now for about a year. I started with
> Caldera OpenLinux 2.2, upgraded to 2.3 a few months later. For
> various reasons (among them, Quake3), I switched to SuSE 6.4 -
> no data loss (/home is a separate partition), no change in GUI,
> no problems (couldn't get Quake running, but the video card
> worked fine otherwise). Because my wife needs to send Japanese
> email occasionally, and because I didn't like yast, I recently
> switched to Mandrake 7.1. I get to keep the same GUI, all the
> same programs, etc.
And they say Linux isn't consistent. As you say, Linux doesn't
change in any dramatic way. The same idea just gets improved over
time. I fully agree with that.
Also, it's a good idea for everyone to have a separate
/home-partition for that sole purpose. In offices, you could even
put the /home-directories on NFS-servers, so everybody can have
his own desktop present on all machines.
> A year ago, I couldn't get my sound card working, and my laptop
> pcmcia cards were a bitch and a half. Now, not only is sound set
> up no problem, but the laptop is too. SuSe set up the 3D card
> just fine - better than windows in fact. Mandrake might have, I
> haven't checked yet. IIRC, COL 2.2 didn't support usb. One year
> later, all the ones I've seen do. Getting true type fonts also
> used to required some work. Now, a true type font server is a
> standard part of the install. Mandrake even set up my cd burner.
> All of the various installs worked without any hitches, and most
> were considerably easier than windows installs.
You're basically right about the installs. With Windows you have
to put in a vendor CD-ROM for every little peripheral you have in
your machine, followed by one or two reboots per peripheral. I
wouldn't call that a user-friendly install at all. Because
Linux-distributions come out much more often, the CD's often
include the latest drivers.
Note that soon you won't even need a separate tt-font server any
more. XFree86 4.0 had it's own font server extended to include
tt-fonts and various other standards, too. Also note that the
quality of important features like multithreading and SMP-support
are greatly increased by kernel 2.4 and XFree86 4.0.
> Point of all this is that, the various distros have progressed
> more in one year than MS Windows has in 5 years. MS puts out a
> new version of windows what, every two or three years? I cannot
> see any difference between Win98 and Win98SE. The differences
> between Win95 and Win98 didn't impress me. Win ME's big selling
> point seems to be that the media player is part of the os and
> that video editing software has been included. Of course, it
> will include drivers for all of the software that was released
> in the last 2 or three years (since the last windows release).
Yes, i noticed that, too. There used to be reviews of Windows 98
in magazines. They basically stated that Windows 98 is Win95
OSR2.5 + IE 4.0. They said the same things about Win98SE. That's
not too good for (and of) Microsoft. I also noticed that general
stability seems to go down with every new consumer version of
Windows. They really should try to avoid that. It would do
Microsoft a lot of good, but that's entirely their choice.
> What would Windows be like if it faced real competition? The
> various Linux distros do have competition, and it shows. Of
> course, much of the thanks also has to go to the open source
> programmers who are working on things like USB support and video
> drivers and the such. Also, you can argue that Linux is playing
> catch-up in many areas (which is usually easier than leading).
> Even so, Linux has already overtaken windows on hardware that is
> supported.
Yes, it's a good thing to see all the different distro's battling
over who has the best install, best interface, best hw-support
and such. It really drives it all forward.
I've noticed that many new open source programmers are coming
from hardware manufacturers and distributions themselves lately.
The best examples are of course Alan Cox from RedHat (kernel),
and the Creative Labs-development team (OpenAL-standard).
> Those people who complained a year ago about sound cards not
> working now have to intentionally choose exotic or bleeding edge
> cards to complain about (like "why can't linux do 4D digital
> stereo surround sound with 18 speakers"). Same with video cards.
> Instead of blasting Linux for not having USB support, they have
> to bitch about their USB _scanner_ not being _well_ supported.
> Instead of lamenting the lack of true type fonts, they complain
> because many people "borrow" their fonts from windows.
These new 3d-positional audio ideas still have no open standards
to base drivers on. The only OS that can handle 3d-audio is
Win98, with a proprietary standard. OpenAL will solve this,
though. The standard is ready and it should be stabilized by
early august.
I think my USB-scanner works better in Linux than it does in
Windows. In Linux the desktop doesn't lock up while you use the
scanner. You can scan an image at very high resolutions and just
continue working while scanning is in progress. Also, when you
plug/unplug a USB-device in Linux, you're never bothered with
dialog-boxes telling you about loading drivers, or with CD's that
have to be inserted. You never even have to reboot your machine.
It just works immediately. (These comments are made with
experience in using the development kernels. Everybody will have
these features when kernel 2.4 comes out stable in a month or
two.)
I only wish there was a better imaging implementation than Sane.
Sane works with frontends/backends and is, in my opinion, a
kludge to administer. Maybe it should work more like X 4.0. (With
modules and ONE config-file, that is) This would make it easier
for distro's to add support for scanners in their installation
procedures. But that's my opinion.
> You get the idea.
>
> MS should be shitting their pants. It has been said before -
> companies just can't compete with the speed and quality of open
> source development. Watching and experiencing the developments
> of the last year, I can now understand that. In a few months,
> if I have reason to, I might upgrade or switch to another
> distro.
As seen by the sharp increase of trolling practices in the Usenet
and IRC area, Microsoft has already begun paying attention to
Linux. It seems like FUD is MS's only weapon against Linux. I
think a good quality increase in Windows itself would be a better
weapon though. But..They can have it anyway they want to. If you
think trolling *here* is bad, try ZDNet. The editorials in ZDNet
have been leaning towards MS a lot lately. Makes you wonder if
they are getting paid or threatened by MS for that or something.
Wouldn't surprise me with their Mafia tactics.
> --
> Osugi Sakae
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
> Up to 100 minutes free!
> http://www.keen.com
--
It shows our files neatly in someone else's tree,
While our desktops show a BSOD,
Our home-made viruses can really run free.
It's made by our favorite monopoly!
------------------------------
From: "Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Why linux sucks and why linux is best
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 07:49:36 GMT
> Interesting. I have an ancient sb16 in one machine and I don't need to
> use isapnp. Just specify the io port, dma, and irq when loading the
> driver. Maybe isapnp is supposed to be easier?
Old SB16 do not need isapnp, just the ones marked as PnP, just like
Vibra16 PnP.
> OTOH, another machine has a Proxim wireless lan card. I configure that
> with isapnp and don't have any particular trouble.
Not each ISA card need isapnp tools, just the one designed just as only PnP
and requiring either the BIOS (if it can) or the OS assigning its resources.
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: VB suck and Java rules (was: Re: Is Java 'larger' than VB ?)
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:03:10 GMT
"Colin R. Day" wrote:
> This may be a silly question, but aren't the server logs text files?
> If so, couldn't one view them in any editor (or even less)?
Actually that's basically what I meant. The comparison made it sound
like you couldn't view the logs with the solaris bundle.. which is total
crap.
--
Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc.
Sorry, please try again. Thank you for taking the Turing test.
------------------------------
From: Michael Marion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows98
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:15:56 GMT
Tim Palmer wrote:
> >"Lie-nux" has ("hals"?) thousands of apps, included in most
> >distributions, and thousands more available for download over the
> >Internet. "STOPPID" TROLL! GO BACK TO "THE" REDMOND!
>
> It doesn't have any USEFAL apps all it has are FUCKING USELESS HAFF RIGHTTEN BETA
>APPS!
Funny... my older box (which was getting too slow for most games) is
running linux. It has two Raid-1 and a Raid-5 software array holding my
data and keeping it safe via redundency. It serves tons of that disk up
via samba to my windows boxes. It serves mail and web for me and some
of my family, it also masquerades and firewalls for several boxes behind
it. I rip CDs on it, receive faxes, and even use it for dialup when I
need to. And these are just the normal daily things that are always
running on it.
Pretty good for a bunch of "useless haff rightten beta apps."
--
Mike Marion - Unix SysAdmin/Engineer, Qualcomm Inc.
Sorry, please try again. Thank you for taking the Turing test.
------------------------------
Subject: Win32 core instability
From: davelists <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 01:11:56 -0700
Anyone know about any websites / papers / arguments discussing
the design flaws inherent in win32's architecture that lead to
instability and insecurity (such as resource centralization)?
===========================================================
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
------------------------------
From: "Hot Java" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Pentum 4?
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 08:46:58 GMT
Someone on IRC claimed that Intel is on the verge of releasing the Pentium 4
processor. Does anyone know anything about it? Is it plug compatible with
the Pentium 2 and 3?
------------------------------
From: Truckasaurus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.sad-people.microsoft.lovers
Subject: Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:31:41 GMT
In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:47:36 GMT, glen vajcner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >The
> >linux community has been great to me, so I hope that it can help me
out
> >in proving this anti-Microsoft point.
>
> This is exactly why I can't take Linux users seriously.
This is exactly why I can't take Jeff Szarka seriously; claiming not
to take Linux users seriously, but nevertheless is he _constantly_
hanging around in COLA.
--
"It's the best $50 bucks I ever spent. I would have paid five
times that for what your 'New You' packet allowed me to do!!!"
-- K. Waterbury, CA
Martin A. Boegelund.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:32:40 +0200
From: Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why linux sucks and why linux is best
farraway wrote:
> Ordinary people, that doesn't use hours on learing operating
> systems, use windows and they are happy with it. Office is
> better than star office etc. I think windows98 and NT is better
> for 1) ordinary use with office, photoshop, games etc. I think
> Linux is better for companies that need more secure on their
> servers. Theese comanies only hire some geeks to setup and
> run their servers properly. I think many "Linux people" not
> only uses Linux as a operating system but also as a religion.
>
> It doesn't matter for ordinary people that the security isn't on top
> because without many windowsprogs many doesn't
> need a PC. OK Linux is good, i have tried it several times,
> but it's best for servers and it isn't good for personal useage.
>
> Why doesn't Linux support USB and plug and play?
Ordinary people using M$ Windows miss out on the good stuff!
Then again - it's obvious you have know idea what Linux is all about. I
suggest you REALLY try first, then comment (play with it, try new
things, read the howto's etc). You will then find that:
* Installation is FASTER and EASIER then any M$ Windows Install
* Overall, the System is more stable then most M$ Windows versions
* Yes, there are Office suites that can compete with M$ Office (by the
way - I think Office 2000 sucks. All the "nice" new features turns out
to become an ever increasing irritation).
* You can do image manipulation on Linux (GIMP)
* There are some nice games with plenty more to follow.
The bottom line is that Linux users can work more effectively because
they worry less about issues like Viruses, Stability, Security etc.
(Keyword is Less - all of these items remain a concern on any platform)
Give it a try. Use it for a couple of months and report back.
One last note - wait till after Kylix is released and you can expect a
software explosion on Linux.
See ya,
Nico
--
==============
The following signature was created automatically under Linux:
.
Marriage, in life, is like a duel in the midst of a battle.
-- Edmond About
------------------------------
From: Truckasaurus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft and General Stupidity
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:41:10 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
sandrews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff Szarka wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:38:33 -0400, sandrews
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Jeff Szarka is a prime example!
> >
> > Once again... I admit I might have judged Linux users to harshly and
> > something comes along to reinforce my initial opinion.
>
> How do you know I am a Linux user?
> I think your predigest is showing.
Hehe, good one! Looking at the posting history of Windows advocates such
as Chad & Chad (Myers & Mulligan), Dresdin Black, "S", and our little
darling Jeff Szarka, etc, one might say that there is
a fair chance that a person who posts in COLA is a Windows advocate...
--
"It's the best $50 bucks I ever spent. I would have paid five
times that for what your 'New You' packet allowed me to do!!!"
-- K. Waterbury, CA
Martin A. Boegelund.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:49:18 +0200
From: Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Win32 core instability
davelists wrote:
> Anyone know about any websites / papers / arguments discussing
> the design flaws inherent in win32's architecture that lead to
> instability and insecurity (such as resource centralization)?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
> Up to 100 minutes free!
> http://www.keen.com
Do a search in google:
http://www.google.com/search?q=win32+design+flaws&meta=lr%3D%26hl%3Den&btnG=Google+Search
I got some interesting sites with the keywords 'win32 design flaws'...
Here are some of the interesting ones:
* http://msbc.simplenet.com/opinion/99_06_28.shtml
* http://www.iseran.com/Win32/FAQ/faq.htm
* http://www.os2forum.or.at/TeamOS2/English/Special/Reports/Shootout/
Cheers
--
==============
The following signature was created automatically under Linux:
.
Marriage, in life, is like a duel in the midst of a battle.
-- Edmond About
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:53:59 +0200
From: Nico Coetzee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Pentum 4?
Hot Java wrote:
> Someone on IRC claimed that Intel is on the verge of releasing the Pentium 4
> processor. Does anyone know anything about it? Is it plug compatible with
> the Pentium 2 and 3?
I think "someone" was refering to IA-64. Check the following site:
http://www.intel.com/eBusiness/estrategies/enabling/itanium.htm?iid=prodinfo+alpha18&;
--
==============
The following signature was created automatically under Linux:
.
Marriage, in life, is like a duel in the midst of a battle.
-- Edmond About
------------------------------
From: "1$worth" <"1$worth"@costreduction.plseremove.screaming.net>
Subject: Re: Pentum 4?
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:02:53 +0100
Hot Java wrote:
>
> Someone on IRC claimed that Intel is on the verge of releasing the Pentium 4
> processor. Does anyone know anything about it? Is it plug compatible with
> the Pentium 2 and 3?
Intel had been on the "verge" of releasing their well publicised 64-bit
processor for quite some time, so I wouldn't hold your breath - they are
just probably concerned about transmeta and are creating some market
uncertainty.
------------------------------
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